Clown pair question

[FishyReef]

I've had my eye on what I believe is at least a bonded pair of pink skunk clowns at my LFS that have a beautiful deep color. My intention is to breed these fish so I want to make sure I get a male/female bonded or mated pair. Tonight I was at the LFS and spent quite some time watching their behavior. There are a total of 5 pink skunks in the tank. The two I believe are a bonded pair are the largest of the 5 and inhabit the same anemone (I've seen them in this nem together several times, since first spotting them about 6 weeks ago). One is quite a bit larger than the other, and I presume she is obviously the female (my guess is 3" and what I think is the male is around 2.25"). Tonight however I watched the smaller of the two defend the anemone from the other 3 skunk clowns in the tank, all of whom are smaller (1.5") than the one I thought was the male of the pair. When "he" chased them away, I saw all three of them (not simultaneously) turn on their sides and quiver in a show of submissiveness. I have yet to witness the smaller of what I think are a pair show submissive behavior to the large female. What are the chances that two females would both host the same anemone? Or that smaller skunk clowns would twitch in submissiveness to a male? I thought it was a safe bet that the two inhabiting the nem were indeed a male/female pair, but could I be wrong about this given the behavior of the other 3 smaller skunks that I observed tonight? I'd hate to buy these two thinking they are a pair only to buy two females.

 

[TBrewerton]

I dont in anyway have any credible experience here, but when I brought my clowns I brought the 2 smallest out of 5 in the tank. There were 2 noticeably big ones then 3 others. I got the 2 smallest and within one week one out grew the other and now the bigger one is defiantly dominant. She will dart at the smaller and he quivers like you said.

From what I understand all clowns are gender neutral at birth then one becomes dominant becoming the female, the next dominant one the male. the rest stay gender neutral unless either the male or female are removed then the next most dominant one will move up into that role.

This is the reason I went for the 2 smallest, as I new they would be gender neutral and then create there own hierarchy in my tank which is what has happened. Whether they will ever breed is another story but at least I know i have a pair.

If anything I have said is incorrect please do correct me if anyone knows better - or more accurate info.

 

[FishyReef]

You are absolutely correct in everything you said! For me, because I want to breed them, I would prefer to get a larger already bonded pair, rather than waiting for young fish to differentiate sexes and then wait another year or more for them to start to spawn. Now, I realize it could still take a long time for them to spawn even if I get a larger pair, but at least I think I'll be one step further along if I get the larger ones! And besides, I really like the deep pink coloration of the two larger ones ;)

 

[Smitty]

That's normal behavior with a group of clowns in the wild...the largest one is the female and the next in line is the mating male. The rest of the group are males, and the mating male was just protecting his position. Once the female dies, the mating/larger male becomes the female, and one of the other males in the group will become the new mating male. So that was normal behavior to witnessed, and it's a safe bet that the larger of the two are a pair.

 

[FishyReef]

Okay, great, thank you Smitty! I think I just might have to pull the trigger on the pair then.... and they will go into a QT tank for treatment while the 37 gets set up.

 

[TBrewerton]

You'll have to get us some pics when you get them :-D sound like a nice pair!

 

[RockStacker]

Sounds like a great adventure. Good luck!
And please share your experience with us.
It would be great to have more people breed reef fish in captivity.

Just to add, if you currently do not have a mated pair:
I was just reading the 2Q-2012 issue of Reef Hobbyist Magazine and there is an article by Matt Pedersen about inducing mated pairs.
The article was about angelfish, but I believe the same concept should apply.
The idea is to not get identical size fish, but get two where one has an obvious size advantage over the other one.
When placing them in the tank together, put a partition where they can interact visually but not physically. The theory is that with the notable size difference, it would minimize the battle for hierarchy and the smaller one would yield easier.
The physical partition also is there to make sure no actual fighting takes place until the pecking order has been established.
Getting fish that are the same size could prolong the aggression period because each fish thinks it has a chance to be the alpha female and would not yield just yet.

Reef Hobbyist Magazine Quarter 2 2012

 

[Bifferwine]

Good luck! Skunks are some of my favorite clowns. It took my clowns 4+ years of being a pair before they started mating (just because they are paired up does not mean they are mating/laying eggs). Some pairs may never lay eggs. If you want a better chance at breeding, you should buy a pair that are already mating and laying eggs, not just paired up.

 

[FishyReef]

Thanks everyone! Reef Stacker - I've read that article and its really cool! Can't believe how easy he makes it sound! Biff, yeah, I know it can take a long time (if ever) for them to actually lay eggs. I figure my first goal is to get a bonded pair with the hopes that they will eventually spawn. If they take some time that's okay - I need time to actually get a decent set up for raising fry. My goal right now is to just get a bonded pair. If I had a current set up for raising fry then I'd go with a breeding pair, but that set up won't actually happen for some time. And then I need to really learn how to do the cultures, etc. So the idea of raising the fry is going to be a well thought out long-term goal, not immediate. With my luck they'll spawn in quarantine LOL. Seriously though, this is a really nicely colored pair - not pale like most that you see - which is why I want to get this particular pair. If they haven't spawned by the time I have a set up going to raise fry, then I'll just have to consider trading them in for an already spawning pair. The one thing that I am going to do (and am nervous as hell about) is quaranting these fish prior to putting them in a DT. Because they are coming from an LFS where I've seen plenty of unhealthy fish, I figure they are carriers of all sorts of stuff. I want to do everything possible to give this pair a chance a good long life, and since they are going into a new tank its a good plan to go through QT and treatment first. Obviously I'll do the same with any other fish I put in that tank as well. But QTing scares me, so wish me luck that I don't kill them in the process.