mdenny
Reefing newb
i want to start my sump so i have a 450 gph return and a 600 gph over flow will this work or is there any way i can slow the overflow??
diy sump
- Thread starter mdenny
- Start date
d2mini
Reef enthusiast
Gate valves on the overflow line and after the exit of the pump on the return line.
This way the flow of either can be adjusted.
Also use unions on either side of your pump so it can be removed for servicing/replacement.
This way the flow of either can be adjusted.
Also use unions on either side of your pump so it can be removed for servicing/replacement.
mdenny
Reefing newb
ok if i put a valve on the overflow line will the overflow box overflow on the floor
d2mini
Reef enthusiast
As long as your return pump is not pumping more water back into the tank than the overflow can drain, you should be fine. Your overflow should be able to drain quite a bit more than your pump can pump back into the tank. Which is why you should put a valve on the return line after the pump, just in case you need to turn down the pump a notch or two.
mdenny
Reefing newb
ok thanks i just tryed my pump in a 5 gallon jug and it pumped out 5 gallons in 30 seconds so that would be 600 gph i think it may work as is but i will still put ball valves on eather side i also had all the plumbing on the pump so my hopes r up
project5k
Reef enthusiast
i would suggest no valves on the plumbing going from the overflow to the sump, and then if you want, you can put a valve on the return plumbing from the pump in the sump up to the dt, also, dont forget to drill syphon break holes in the return side....
also, if your pump is considerably smaller than your overflow you may run into issues clearing the bubbles in the u-tube...
and dont forget to subtract from the pump's output the losses you will have when it has to lift the water up from the sump to the top of the DT.
also, if your pump is considerably smaller than your overflow you may run into issues clearing the bubbles in the u-tube...
and dont forget to subtract from the pump's output the losses you will have when it has to lift the water up from the sump to the top of the DT.
mdenny
Reefing newb
ok i was sortof thinking the overflow at some time would just fill up and leak all over the floor
d2mini
Reef enthusiast
I like to put the valves everywhere in case i need to turn off water flow. Ya never know what may arise that will have you needing to disconnect plumbing or needing to stop water flow immediately.
Wes888
Reef enthusiast
Same here. Knowing myself always change things around, having valve in every connection allow me to swap out any parts of the plumbing when I what to. :)
project5k
Reef enthusiast
ok, i can see the valves for maint on the down hill side, but i would never try and regulate flow with it
dcantucson
Reef pro
But we regulate flow with valves all the time, don't we?
project5k
Reef enthusiast
yea but what i'm getting at is on the gravety feed side, ie the side comming down from the overflow, i wouldnt regulate that flow, it could back up and cause a flood.... if you need to regulate the flow, control the uphill side...
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
You need to isolate the pump with a ball valve on each side. This allows you to take the pump OUT and replace or service it if you need too.
ball valve >>> union >>> pump <<<< union <<< ball valve
I am NOT saying anything about regulating flow. I'll let the rest of you battle it out. I'm just saying you need a valve to shut off the flow -- then a union to disconnect from the pump -- then the pump -- another union -- and the last ball valve.
As long as the overflows can do 1.5 times the rate of the pump - you should never have an overflow. It's only going to flow OUT of the tank as fast as the pump will pump it back uphill and dump it back in the tank. As long as the overflows are rated to flow AT LEAST the amount of the max pumping capacity it'll never overflow. Thats why I'd say to make sure your overflows can do 1.5 times the pump capacity.
If your overflows are only rated at 75% of the pump - you got yourself a flood. The pump will push the water from the sump back into the tank faster than the tank can dump the water back out the overflows.
ball valve >>> union >>> pump <<<< union <<< ball valve
I am NOT saying anything about regulating flow. I'll let the rest of you battle it out. I'm just saying you need a valve to shut off the flow -- then a union to disconnect from the pump -- then the pump -- another union -- and the last ball valve.
As long as the overflows can do 1.5 times the rate of the pump - you should never have an overflow. It's only going to flow OUT of the tank as fast as the pump will pump it back uphill and dump it back in the tank. As long as the overflows are rated to flow AT LEAST the amount of the max pumping capacity it'll never overflow. Thats why I'd say to make sure your overflows can do 1.5 times the pump capacity.
If your overflows are only rated at 75% of the pump - you got yourself a flood. The pump will push the water from the sump back into the tank faster than the tank can dump the water back out the overflows.
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project5k
Reef enthusiast
ok, not starting a fight, but i had to reply on this.
the first line, about the valves and unions. absolutely agree, from a maint. prospective, this is absolutely the way to do it.
the rest of it, well we may have to discuss a bit. Your reasoning is sound, i'm just not sure that your math is correct. if you have your overflow rated too much bigger than your pump, then the flow wont be swift enough to clear the air bubbles that get trapped at the top of the syphon u-tube. this can cause a flood, ask me, i know...
but i also partly agree about the other end of the spectrum, assuming that when you say 75% of the pumps rating, what you really ment was what the pump could actually put out after subtracting head losses... not the 0 head rating, which is what most people look at, and never consider de-rating the pump for head losses..
so, while i kinda agree with your logic, i would question your math untill i see something more solid in the way of #'s.
just my thoughts...
Wes888
Reef enthusiast
+1 p5k
daugherty
part time reefer
the only thing i have to add is that i would never put a ballvalve on the drain side of the plumming it is just asking for trouble
project5k
Reef enthusiast
well, thats actually what i said that started this particular part of the conversation, and RC pointed out that to have it there, but WIDE OPEN AT ALL TIMES, and only use the valve thats on the drain side when you need to do maint. on the pump or something to that effect, that it would be nice to not have that water just free to run all over the place while the pump or whatever is out of the line.
as for something getting stuck in the valve, like a snail or something, well, then if the valve that you are using has places that a snail could get stuck, then you might want to think about going to a larger valve in that particular location. the valve on the drain side SHOULD be basically invisable to the water flow, unless you are working on the plumbing of the system..
dcantucson
Reef pro
Rc is correct, IMO.
Just keep it open when in use. It's really that simple AND no big deal. It's really no debate, just a sensible preference.
Just keep it open when in use. It's really that simple AND no big deal. It's really no debate, just a sensible preference.
project5k
Reef enthusiast
thats what i said(about the valve part)
daugherty
part time reefer
i just think that if the pump is off than there is no water running through the piping. but i do see it being needed depending on were the pipe is entering the sump at.
