If the fish recovers from ich in DT, should he then be moved to QT?

Discussion in 'Fish Disease' started by Zissou, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. Zissou

    Zissou What about my dynamite? VIP Member

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    My gf and I recently picked up a flame angel and introduced him to our 30g tank. The tank has been up and running for several months, contains 37lbs of live rock, and currently houses some snails, an emerald crab and a cleaner shrimp. It has an HOB octopus skimmer and two koralia 2s.

    Tank levels are where they should be. I made the mistake of buying him from Petco, and not having a quarantine tank. I acclimated him for 30-45 minutes, and introduced him to the tank. Aside from being shy and staying towards the back, he appears healthy, and he's eating.

    This morning he looked great, this afternoon, he had ich all over him. Stress from the move? We've read several sites, pages, and talked to an employee at our favorite LFS, and have received several methods on treating ich.

    We're of the opinion that he got ich from being at petco, or stressed in the move, and are afraid that if we dip him in freshwater, and QT him (and either hypo or use copper), we'll only stress him further and kill him.

    Now I've read here on the forums of a couple instances where the fish was left on his own, soaking his food in garlic, raising the temperature to 78-84 degrees, and letting his immune system do the job. This is probably the route we'll take.

    However, if he manages to fight it off and gets healthy, should we leave him alone in the DT? I'm just thinking that if we move him to QT, wouldn't it be likely that he'll just get stressed (and therefore ich) again? Or should we remove him, so that the DT can be fishless for 6-8 weeks...

    Sorry for the long post. We appreciate any help you can give us. :sad:
     
    Zissou, Apr 18, 2010
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  2. Zissou

    Cathic Fish Wrangler

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    Remove him, and treat him with cooper, he will never be ich free if you just let him alone, he may not show signs, but he will always., have it.
     
    Cathic, Apr 18, 2010
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  3. Zissou

    RIJohn

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    I am far from an expert but you should really drip acclimate all new animals for at least two hours. Always QT
     
    RIJohn, Apr 18, 2010
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  4. Zissou

    Zissou What about my dynamite? VIP Member

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    We've decided to quarantine him, after reading this link: Marine Ich - Myths and Facts - Reef Sanctuary

    Setup a 15 gallon QT tank. Going to start the process of moving all my live rock into buckets and trying to catch him. Blah.
     
    Zissou, Apr 18, 2010
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  5. Zissou

    dcantucson

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    Do you have any other fish in the tank? If you do, and if they were not ick carriers before, they are now.
     
    dcantucson, Apr 18, 2010
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  6. Zissou

    Zissou What about my dynamite? VIP Member

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    He's the only one to worry about, the only fish in the tank. I plan to keep the DT empty for two months, adding only inverts and corals, but every fish from now on will go through QT. We're really attached to this silly fish, and we've both accepted it as a hard lesson. I'm only glad there aren't more fish in there.

    Unfortunately, there's only one real LFS up here for saltwater now, and I'm not sure they're open on Sunday. Plan is to get some copper (cupramine) and a test kit, but I'm not certain they have it. Only other place I can check is petco. :grumble:

    Hyposalinity is my next option. I just hope he can survive til tomorrow.
     
    Zissou, Apr 18, 2010
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  7. Zissou

    Cathic Fish Wrangler

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    most fish wont go downhill extremely fast, so you should be ok till tomorrow, keep the water quality good and just dose his food with garlic if possible to keep him eating then just treat him and you will be good.
     
    Cathic, Apr 18, 2010
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  8. Zissou

    OhNoNemo i love triggers

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  9. Zissou

    Zissou What about my dynamite? VIP Member

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    Every LFS in town only carries Coppersafe (chelated copper), which from what I've read, isn't safe enough for dwarf angels. Nobody carries cupramine.

    Hypo it is. I just hope it's not too late. :frustrat:
     
    Zissou, Apr 18, 2010
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  10. Zissou

    Cathic Fish Wrangler

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    I used Coppersafe but switched from it, it was ok with my rusty, that was months ago.
     
    Cathic, Apr 19, 2010
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  11. Zissou

    Cathic Fish Wrangler

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    Also, hypo is much more specific, and will require monitoring, drop the salinity over 3-5 days, and let it sit that way for well over a month, then slowly bring the salinity back up, roughly .001-.002 a day.
     
    Cathic, Apr 19, 2010
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    VAreef

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    I think a big thing is to understand ich. Ich is a parasite. It needs it's host fish to survive itself. Almost every fish has ich. About the only way to kill it is a hypo treatment. Ich being in almost every fish but we don't see it because the ich is happy. Once the fish gets stressed then the ich starts to leave the fish causing the white spots. Many people say well kill the ich...But what about the fish being stressed? The ich is an alarm going off telling you that your fish is in trouble. Now once they show signs of ich sure treat it. however you got to get to the root problem of what is stressing the fish. It's usually a move that did it. Even if you acclimated you cannot recreate what that fish was used to in just a few hours. You need to baby him and keep him eating for days after being put in a new tank. Garlic soaked foods, no nuisance fish(damsels), plenty of hiding spots, etc... Most fish can fight past this stress problem but some simply cannot.
     
    VAreef, Apr 19, 2010
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  13. Zissou

    Zissou What about my dynamite? VIP Member

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    I managed to catch him out of the DT in about five seconds. Just sheer dumb luck. He saw my right hand and bolted into the net that was in my left, and is now in quarantine.

    He looks a little bit perkier and healthier today, which gives me hope that he can do the 6-8 weeks I plan on keeping him there. Going to try and feed him in a bit (with a garlic/cyclopeeze/emerald entree mix.)

    Thanks for the comments guys. :Cheers:
     
    Zissou, Apr 19, 2010
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  14. Zissou

    Zissou What about my dynamite? VIP Member

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    If I get a hob aquaclear 20 sponge filter, should I leave the biomax media in it or leave it out? Or should I just do water changes every other day?

    If I do water changes, anyone know any easy way to mix 5 gallons of 1.009 spg water? One part saltwater, four parts ro/di?
     
    Zissou, Apr 19, 2010
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  15. Zissou

    OhNoNemo i love triggers

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    I'm confused,is the QT cycled?What is the filtration on it now?If it is not cycled ,just use what media was on your DT...Also,you don't need to mix up 1.009 of saltwater.You will be replacing what you take out with plain RO water...Do you have a refract.,this can't be done unless you do.Good luck..
     
    OhNoNemo, Apr 19, 2010
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  16. Zissou

    Zissou What about my dynamite? VIP Member

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    Once it's brought down to 1.009, I have to keep it there for a few weeks, and have to do regular water changes. Everything is easy now because all I have do is change the water with ro, but once it's down at the level I need it, I have to do water changes with water that's 1.009 to keep it there.

    I have an HOB skimmer on the tank, there's no media. If I put a live rock in there, the hyposalinity will kill anything that's on it, I assume. So all I can think of is to get a HOB sponge filter and cycle it, doing frequent water changes in the meantime.
     
    Zissou, Apr 20, 2010
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