Introduction and plea for help

[jason892]

Hello all. I have had a 75 g. fish and live rock tank now for about 3 years. For the first 18 months, it was great. Had a couple of false perculas, lawn mower blenny, and more coraline algae than my wife wanted. I had all of that with about 20 lbs. of live rock. About a year ago, I bought around 50 more pounds of live rock that looked picture perfect. It had a ton of coraline algae in colors other than the deep purple that I had a ton of. Everywhere that I looked on the internet said the more live rock you have, the happier/better the livestock will be. I don't want a tank that can grow SPS/LPS corals, I just want my clowns to be happy. After purchasing, I put the rock in a plastic tub for 4 months w/ 4 power heads and a skimmer. I did 50% water changes every week religiously. I put the rock in the tank and in less than a month, my tank was overrun with cyanobacteria, everything except the serpent star died, and my wife went ballistic. I made several 75% water changes in an effort to reverse the trend, but nothing helped. I got disgusted with the whole mess, turned off the lights, covered the tank with a sheet and pretty much forgot about it except when the water evaporated enough to cause a power head to come out of the water. It sat like that for the last 9 months. Over the Christmas break this year, I got the urge to try and revive the tank. When I removed the sheet, I was relieved to see that all of the cyanobacteria was gone. The Live Rock still has about 40% coraline coverage, and my serpent star survived the experience and doubled in size (He's huge). I changed 90% of the water last weekend, set my power compact lights on a timer giving 12 hours of actinic lighting and 8 hours of full spectrum, and am seeing some life out of my LR. I noticed yesterday afternoon that the cyanobacteria is also coming back to life. It is in the bottom corner of the tank on the side that I left open for free swimming space and just on the glass now, but I want to get ahead of it. Since I lost the battle last time, I really need some experienced help. Below are my parameters:

Salinity: 1.021 (measured with Instant Ocean Hydrometer)
Nitrates: <10 before 10 gallon water change this a.m.
Ammonia: 0
temp: 78 f
Lights: 2 x 96 w 10,000 k PC , 1 96w 450 nm actinic.
Contents: 70 lbs. live rock, 1 very big serpent star
Filter: Fluval 405 canister w/ 2 compartments filter media, 1 carbon, 1 polishing pad (carbon and polishing pad changed last week)
Skimmer: Prizm

:frustrat: Help Please :frustrat:
Depth to bottom: 24"

 

[Melonbob]

cyano will grow where there is low flow. If its starting in that corner, chances are there isn't alot of water moving there. I didn't notice any powerheads in your description. If you don't have any, chances are there may have been enough water movement before, but once you added all that rock, it restricted flow.Get a powerhead pointed in that direction. I'd have a total of 2 koralia 3's and two koralia 2's in a tank that size. Also, suck it up with a hose as quickly as it grows. don't get discouraged, cyano sucks, but you can beat it!

 

[yote]

+1 Melonbob
Bobs dead on about the water flow.
Another thing to look at is phosphates.Which will help cyano get started.And once you see it,its already to the point that it can supply its own nutrients.So you'll have to manually remove as much as possible.And run some form of GFO to remove phosphates.
The big thing,is dont get discouraged.Your going to have cyano and algae blooms.They're just part of the process of your tank maturing.You've just got to limit them as much as possible and figure out whats fueling them.Then you can effectively deal with em.
BTW,Welcome to the site.Were here to help.

 

[jason892]

cyano will grow where there is low flow. If its starting in that corner, chances are there isn't alot of water moving there. I didn't notice any powerheads in your description. If you don't have any, chances are there may have been enough water movement before, but once you added all that rock, it restricted flow.

I had two power heads I failed to mention, but both were pointing at the live rock. I've redirected their flow to create a whirlpool counter-current of my canister return. That created some turbidity in the upper water column but left the whirlpool action at the bottom of the tank. I'll see how that works. Thanks Bob.

Yote,

What type of GFO are you talking? I really don't want to set up a refugium for macro's. I was hoping the carbon in the canister would do a sufficient job. Would removing some of the filter media and replacing with carbon be beneficial?

 

[bobby]

What type of water are you using. RO RO/DI or tap? I also noticed that you are using a prizim skimmer. Prizims are ok for a nano but I think it is deffinetly not enough for a 75 gal tank.

Cyno can also be caused by old bulbs. PC's should be changed out every year, some say every 6 months, but I do mine at a year and they do good.

Are you sure cyno killed your clowns. Just wondering if you might have or have had a hitchhicker from your new rock. I had a crab in my reef for about 8 months before I ever knew he was there. I kept wondering who was killing all my snail.LOL

 

[d.french]

canister filters are nitrate factories so if your gonna use keep filter pads clean and your not supposed to run carbon 24/7 cause it removes trace elements over time i run for 3 weeks than off for 3 weeks. You need a good protein skimmer now cause i'm guessing you don't have one. There are different brands of hang skimmers to choose from deltec is best but costly, bermuda rogue is a really good skimmer and more affordable is octopus skimmer so if your running a 75 gallon get a skimmer that is rated for something bigger like 125 gallon.

 

[messiah023]

Hi Jason,

Welcome to the site.
I agree with everyone here.

1.) You need a LOT of flow for a 75g tank. You should look into and invest in several (3 or more) Koralia powerheads #3. Since you don't have a sump and return (I assume), you should have some top-water movement with a powerhead pointed upwards.

2.) I would scale your lighting to 8 hours total. No need for the extra actinic hours since you don't have any corals.

3.) You should get a large clean-up crew for that tank. Snails, hermits, etc. Nassarius snails will take care of your sandbed (sifting and cleaning) and Astrea snails will typically eat Cyano. You could go with some Turbo snails as well....a good mix for your tank is definately needed. You could have close to 75 inverts in combination for a 75g.

4.) Canister filters are nitrate traps. If you decide to use it for carbon, make sure you clean it VERY often. Another route would be something like THIS. You can load carbon & GFO for your phosphate control.

5.) A nice skimmer as indicated above would be a great benefit to your tank. Look at Octopus (my preference) for a good quality skimmer.

6.) As I said, you didn't mention if you have a sump or not. I assume not. You should look into a sump system for your 75g. A 20g home-made tank style sump could be plumbed to your display tank with inexpensive overflows. This will be a benefit to your overall system.

Good luck. Study carefully and ask many questions. A good source for some ideas is the Living Reefs TANK SHOWCASE forums. See what others are doing on their threads for some very valuable information.

 

[Trickster]

I agree w/french canisters are factories, the pads catch the poop & liquefy it into the wc. Which is why u need good skimmer & PO4 reactor. The bad side of that is heavy skimming removes beneficial nutrients & canisters lead to old tank syndrom. There is no replacement for a sump w/refugium.

 

[d.french]

No such thing to over skimming, regular water changes put make trace elements to what your corals need, nutrients are what you export with chaeto and skimmers. If your skimmer is always pulling thick nasty crud and doesn't eventually change to something lighter than your skimmer isn't catching up with bioload. You need elements not nutrients.

 

[dustin_P74]

everyone else has given you great info, but i also think those massive water changes your doing could also be hurting the tank, i would only do a 50% change maximum for emergencies only

 

[d.french]

agree with dustin, when did big water changes seemed like i was having a constant cycle, maybe 20 percent changes until its back on track.

 

[Trickster]

large skimming is a thought out there = 1 thought & i'm sure works 4 some. And my bad over skimming removes beneficial elements. But if water changes work 4ya that's good. Mine gets 2 20% a year & element dosing. Skimmer runs only if something dies, maybe once a year for a day.

 

[dustin_P74]

trickster, could you please post more info on your setup and how you run it in a different thread? im intrigued about how you do things

 

[d.french]

of course skimmers remove some trace elements but not running a skimmer 24/7 might be fine if you don't have fish but if you have sps you need regular water changes and a calcium supplement and constant skimming. Sound like a disaster in a long run with no skimmer.

 

[d.french]

you want clean water for fish and most importantly coral adding trace elements won't replace everything like a water change does and skimming is a must. without constant skimming and regular water changes your not removing dead organics and fish waste. your always going to lose trace elements thats the whole idea of a water change remember corals use up trace element all those little feather dusters breading in tank use trace elements make tubes they live in snails and clams do to grow shells.

 

[Keaton]

Ya I'd have to agree with these guys. A sump/refugium with a nice clean-up crew and a good skimmer would be the way to go as opposed to a canister filter. As far as the flow is concerned, a properly set up sump will cycle the entire volume of the tank roughly 10x per hour. That combined with a powerhead or two should do it. Sounds like you've got quite the undertaking, good luck. Oh and welcome to the site! :)

 

[Trickster]

Bristle stars & Crabs eat the poop w/o skimming, Kalkwasser in makeup water supply cal & maintain alk. Mag & Strontium & trace dosing is necessary. 120gal, 17fish, Montipora is only sps & new to tank but my LPS, Leathers, Mushrooms, Polyps & Softs multiply. I grow for others tanks. = works 4 me

 

[d.french]

thats good it works for you but not always good to give someone else advice not to use protein skimmer, i have seen some tanks without protein skimmer but they were strictly reef tanks that were very mature systems with tons of sponge(natural filters) and tons of critters to help keep clean, no fish were in it. You will have alot of nutrient export if you use chaeto in fuge cause it grows using light, nitrates, phosphates and than you throw some away every week or so and more grows and and keep repeating that is also a good nutrient export. Some like to use liverock only in sumps and use a phos reactor with gfo which works awesome. i run one tank macro algae in sump and other tank with live rock in sump and phosreactor with and gfo and carbon in it.

 

[jason892]

The Prism is a HOT protein skimmer rated at 100 g. I have another (can't remember what it is) that's made for a sump, but trying to avoid that. If I removed the carbon from the canister and just used it as a place to store the filtration media (little white things similar to bio balls but branded by fluval as BIO MAX) would I get the same effect as running it through a sump? I can remove the final stage polishing pads and the front end floss filters, but I'd rather leave the floss to catch the larger pieces of debris that would clog the filter media.

I guess my question here is that I've seen several diffferent sump designs. Some have the water trickling through the filter media (bio balls) to allow maximum air penetraion for the aerobic process, and others I've seen the balls completely submersed (like man made live rock giving microbes extra surface area for propagation) depending on the oxygen in the water column to provide the necessary aerobic reaction. Is it possible to achieve these results from my canister in a tidy package as opposed to the required HOT overflows, inherent gurgling sounds, and expanded space required of a sump/refugium? And, where do I get my phosphate removal? Is there a "pretty" macro I can grow in the display and be able to depend on the critters to keep pruned to an acceptable level?

 

[d.french]

i had a hang on fuge and hang on skimmer on my 75 gallon before just didn't have a good enough skimmer, alot of skimmers say there rated for certain amount of gallons but actually arent. i used the same prizm skimmer on a 29 gallon tank did awesome for that tank but i wouldn't use it on anything bigger than 40 gallon breeder.