Noob ... is this good to start with?

[BL1]

So, I got into this hobby because I've always loved saltwater aquariums and the way they look with the bright beautiful looking fish in them. But, I always thought it was way too expensive to get into, now however, with close to $1000 into my 75g freshwater aquarium I'm starting to realize that SW is just not really much more expensive than FW. I've been lurking/reading everything about SW and I also bought The Marine Aquarium Handbook by M.A. Moe Jr. (and read the whole thing in less than 2 days). that I can on about 10 different forums (I just actually found this one though) and I was hoping to run my future plans by the forum and see what you all thought and get your input so that I can make this as successful/inexpensive as I can on my first attempt.

36 or 46 gallon bowfront (30"L x 15"W x 21"H , 36"L x 16"W x 24"H respectively)


( I need to know what kinds of lighting I should use (the kinds of coral I would like will be listed below the fish))



Eheim ECCO External Canister Filter 2234


Hydor THEO Heater 200 Watt


American Marine Pinpoint Salinity Monitor


Prizm Deluxe Skimmer, Up to 40 gallons, CD-14412


CPR CS90 Overflow Box


Berlin Sump BS-1, 23 inch x 12 inch x 14 inch


Eheim 1260 Pump


Hydor Koralia 2 Circulation Pump/Powerhead UL 600 gph


Coralife Digital Thermometer


Captive Purity Refractometer
AquaticLife™ Four Stage RO/DI Professional Water Purification System - 60GPD Deluxe


Tropic Marin Pro Reef Sea Salt



Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Saltwater Liquid Master Test Kit


Captive Purity 35 GPD Deluxe RO Filter System - Clear Canisters

Drs. Foster & Smith Select Fiji Premium Live Rock(appx. 70 lbs. worth, I think)


Florida Live Sand (not sure how much I need)

If anyone has any other suggestions please feel free to give me your input because as much as I want a beautiful, colorful, vibrant aquarium ... I want to make sure that the fish that are eventually inhabiting my tank have the best/longest lives possible. And please let me know about the substrate because I've read that the LS is so much better than the packaged sand, is that true?

Crabs/Snails:
7 Scarlet Hermit Crabs
15 Mexican Turbo Snails or Margarita Snails or Zebra Turbo Snails
27 Dwarf Red Tip Hermit or Dwarf Yellow Tip Hermit or Dwarf Zebra Hermit (Hawaii)
2 Abalone or Banded Trochus Snails or Turban Snails
2 Spiny Star Astraea

Coral:
Silver Branch Pumping Xenia
Regular Pumping Xenia
Starburst Polyps
Colony Polyps
Cauliflower Colt Coral
Taro Tree Coral
Toadstool Mushroom Leather Coral
Spaghetti Finger Leather Coral

Inverts:
2 Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp
3 Hawaii Feather Dusters

And here are my lists of fish ...

Must haves:
Ocellaris Clownfish (I would like to get 1 or 2 depending on if I can have one with the B&W Clown)
Black and White Ocellaris Clownfish ( 1 depending on the first clown)
Clown Goby, Green (1 or 2)
Firefish, Purple (1 or 2)
Six Line Wrasse

Would like to haves:
Kaudern's Cardinal
Fridmani Pseudochromis
Court Jester
Bicolor Pseudochromis Goby
Coral Beauty Angelfish
Royal Gramma Basslet
Green Mandarin

Would like to have but not neccesary:
Long Tentacle Anemone
Pincushion Urchin, Blue Tuxedo
Red Sea Star
Spiny Sea Cucumber, Green w/Pink & Yellow

Now, here's the deal in the end I would like my tank to only be about 80-90% stocked because I would like to have a lot of color swimming around in the tank but, more importantly, I definitely want the fish to have enough room to swim comfortably. So, with that being said, can you please let me know which fish combinations will give me the best results for my tank (and for a first-time SW aquarist).

Thank you for all you help that you can give me, in advance,
Brian

 

[Ted]

well canister filters can be a pain. I run one and you have to do weekly maintenance on it and I mean every week. If you skip a week it can really mess with the water quality. The best and easiest filter is live rock and a good skimmer. 1 to 2 pounds of live rock per gallon. The skimmer you listed isnt the greatest. I have never had one however a bunch of people on here have and didnt like them. They are hard to set and you have to adjust a bunch. Look at the octopus skimmer line. From what everyone says they are the best bang for the buck. As far as reef tanks go there isnt a magic solution for every tank. Each tank is gonna be different and what works for some doesnt mean it will work for others. Personally I am on a very tight budget so I make up for that with a lot of hands on maintenance. It works for me, I like tinkering with my tanks. As far as lights go you should go either T-5 or MH or a combo of that. Shoot for at least 4 watts per gallon, more would be better. The biggest advice is go slow and research until you know it like the back of your hand. If you fall in love with a certain fish and it says 90 gallon tank recommended. Then just replace recommended with only or above. In a smaller system it just wont work and you will be just throwing money away. Anyway sorry so long a reply have fun and welcome to the best forum on the planet. :D

 

[Ted]

Oh by the way the fish and corals you listed look ok for the size tank you are gonna get. However I think you will be a bit crowded with that many fish. One of the biggest differences in salt and fresh you cant have as many fish. The corals should be fine just buy small and watch them grow. Then you can learn all about fragging. Stay away from anemones at least for a year. You will find out they are little time bombs waiting to go off in your tank. Really I think they are best in big established systems or in species tanks.

 

[Smitty]

Hello and welcome to the site, glad to have you...I 100% agree with Ted. The most important thing to remember is to take your time and research before you purchase...and if you don't know something or just don't understand, feel free to ask.

 

[yote]

+1 Ted.

You might want to look into a better skimmer to.From what I understand about those Prizm skimmer,they dont do much.I think you'd be better off and spend less money in the long run by going with something like an Octopus skimmer,or even an ETSS Reef Devil skimmer.
And Welcome to the site.

 

[AdeptMrSniffles]

Welcome to the site!

+1 Everyone

• Put the $$ saved from buying a canister filter towards some Live Rock or towards a better protein skimmer.
• You'll want to purchase a stronger heater as well, or just multiple smaller ones.
• Koralia's are great power heads, but you'll need more than one. 2 or 3 powerheads would be nice in your tank. I'd also go with the K3's instead of the 2's for some real water movement. Plus it'll give your fish something to swim against.

 

[dcantucson]

Welcome Brian to Living Reefs. The advice listed above is great. Just remember the two of the most important keys to this hobby is patience and research. Do plenty of it and never make a decision too quickly. If you don't do your homework, then you'll find yourself buying and re-buying equipment and other things. Good luck with your new adventure.

 

[Bifferwine]

Hi Brian!
Skip the canister filter. It's just trouble waiting to happen, and is a pain to keep clean. Instead, get a better skimmer. I speak from experience -- the Prizm is pretty much a piece of crap. You should look to get a skimmer rated at twice your tank size. I recommend the Octopus brand. They are great skimmers and there's really not that big of a price difference between an Octo and a Prizm.

Next, in saltwater you will be limited to approximately 1 fish per 10 gallons of tank size, give or take a fish. Also, you will not be able to keep more than one type of clown in the same tank.

 

[BL1]

Thank you everyone for all your quick replies. I'm still only in my planning research phase for my future aquarium, I've bought 5 marine aquarium books and I'm reading everything I can on the internet before I do anything. I probably won't be actually setting anything up for at least another 4 months till I do feel comfortable that I'll know somewhat what I'm doing. I have a lot of trouble when I started my FW aqariums because I didn't know what I was doing, and I lot several fish because of it. I'd like to avoid that if I can this time.

I realize that I had a lot of fish on my list, And I don't plan on getting all of them, only probably 5 of them. When I was looking at the fish, I tried to pick only the ones that were recommended for 30 gallon or smaller tanks, so I think they should all work. Thanks for the advice on the skimmer and power heads, I'll have to change them.
Thanks everyone for the quick replies, this definitely is the best forum that I'm a member of (and it's only been like 8 hours). And thanks for reading both of my really long posts.

Brian

 

[Bifferwine]

Yeah saltwater fish are EXPENSIVE to kill!! We all know that all too well ;)

 

[wontonflip]

I found saltwater is more expensive in the beginning, but once established, the cost goes down significantly. Everyone's got you covered here, especially about the canister filter and skimmer. I use tropic marin, and love it.

I suggest you get the biggest tank you can afford and fit in your house. Judging by your enthusiasm, you'll want to upgrade later when you start seeing all the fish and corals at the lfs :) I started off with a 45g, content with it, until I started stocking it, and realized I wanted more. a year later, I've upgraded to a 125g LOL

Ask away! You will always get a response here!

 

[RyanG]

Brian, if you don't have it check out The Conscientous Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner. Best book on the subject matter especially for someone new to the hobby. I recommend it to everyone that is getting into saltwater. It teaches most of the modern techniques...most books on the subject are dated IME.

 

[RyanG]

36 or 46 gallon bowfront (30"L x 15"W x 21"H , 36"L x 16"W x 24"H respectively) This is a good size but something with a 48" length is better, quality lighting is much easier to find for this size.


( I need to know what kinds of lighting I should use (the kinds of coral I would like will be listed below the fish))



Eheim ECCO External Canister Filter 2234 skip it, it will be more harm than good in a saltwater aquarium


Hydor THEO Heater 200 Watt this is good but two would be better, couple them with a Ranco Thermometer controller for the best result


American Marine Pinpoint Salinity Monitor skip it, get a refractometer instead


Prizm Deluxe Skimmer, Up to 40 gallons, this skimmer is really bad go for an Octopus or similar NEEDLEWHEEL skimmer.



CPR CS90 Overflow Box Getting a reefready tank or drill it yourself and use a www.glassholes.com overflow kit, you will thank us later.


Berlin Sump BS-1, 23 inch x 12 inch x 14 inch a DIY sump will be more useful


Eheim 1260 Pump


Hydor Koralia 2 Circulation Pump/Powerhead UL 600 gph jump up to K3's and get 2 or 3 of them, saltwater needs a LOT more flow than freshwater


Coralife Digital Thermometer


Captive Purity Refractometer
AquaticLife™ Four Stage RO/DI Professional Water Purification System - 60GPD Deluxe


Tropic Marin Pro Reef Sea Salt I recently switched from this salt to Oceanic Salt, you get the same 200 gallon bucket for less money and it has higher Calcium and Alkalinity the tropic marin



Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Saltwater Liquid Master Test Kit


Captive Purity 35 GPD Deluxe RO Filter System - Clear Canisters

Drs. Foster & Smith Select Fiji Premium Live Rock(appx. 70 lbs. worth, I think)


Florida Live Sand (not sure how much I need)

If anyone has any other suggestions please feel free to give me your input because as much as I want a beautiful, colorful, vibrant aquarium ... I want to make sure that the fish that are eventually inhabiting my tank have the best/longest lives possible. And please let me know about the substrate because I've read that the LS is so much better than the packaged sand, is that true?

Crabs/Snails:
7 Scarlet Hermit Crabs
15 Mexican Turbo Snails or Margarita Snails or Zebra Turbo Snails
27 Dwarf Red Tip Hermit or Dwarf Yellow Tip Hermit or Dwarf Zebra Hermit (Hawaii)
2 Abalone or Banded Trochus Snails or Turban Snails
2 Spiny Star Astraea

^^^This, skip most of these! Hermits are neat to watch but snails are more effective and wont kill each other for shells, 15 turbos are way too many for a relatively small tank. A couple would be plenty but beware, they are clumsy and will knock corals over, margarita snails come from cold water and they typically die fast in our reef tanks. Stick to astreas, cerinths(my personal favorites) and nassarrius snails in the beginning.

Coral:
Silver Branch Pumping Xenia
Regular Pumping Xenia
Starburst Polyps
Colony Polyps
Cauliflower Colt Coral
Taro Tree Coral
Toadstool Mushroom Leather Coral
Spaghetti Finger Leather Coral

Inverts:
2 Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp
3 Hawaii Feather Dusters

And here are my lists of fish ...

Must haves:
Ocellaris Clownfish (I would like to get 1 or 2 depending on if I can have one with the B&W Clown)
Black and White Ocellaris Clownfish ( 1 depending on the first clown)
Clown Goby, Green (1 or 2)
Firefish, Purple (1 or 2)
Six Line Wrasse

Would like to haves:
Kaudern's Cardinal
Fridmani Pseudochromis
Court Jester
Bicolor Pseudochromis Goby
Coral Beauty Angelfish
Royal Gramma Basslet
Green Mandarin

Would like to have but not neccesary:
Long Tentacle Anemone
Pincushion Urchin, Blue Tuxedo
Red Sea Star
Spiny Sea Cucumber, Green w/Pink & Yellow

Now, here's the deal in the end I would like my tank to only be about 80-90% stocked because I would like to have a lot of color swimming around in the tank but, more importantly, I definitely want the fish to have enough room to swim comfortably. So, with that being said, can you please let me know which fish combinations will give me the best results for my tank (and for a first-time SW aquarist).

Thank you for all you help that you can give me, in advance,
Brian

Brian,

I hope you don't take offense to me sort of picking your list apart. Just remember some unofficial rules. 1-2 pounds of live rock per gallon of water, 1 inch of FULL GROWN fish per 3-5 gallons of water in the DISPLAY(this can be fudged a little but you will know quickly if you are overstocked, NO3 levels will rise quick) and 1 piece of clean up crew(CUC) per gallon in a mature tank. I would start my system out with 1 piece of CUC/5 gallons and add from there as needed. They feed of detritus and algae and can and will starve in a new tank if there are too many too fast. Remember that patience is key in marine aquaria, if it seems like its going to slow you're still probably moving too fast. This will give you a ton of time to read and research, be sure to check out the Articles section and database that has been constructed on this site, they are awesome!

Best wishes on your endeavor and I hope to see you out on the boards!

 

[BL1]

Brian,

I hope you don't take offense to me sort of picking your list apart. Just remember some unofficial rules. 1-2 pounds of live rock per gallon of water, 1 inch of FULL GROWN fish per 3-5 gallons of water in the DISPLAY(this can be fudged a little but you will know quickly if you are overstocked, NO3 levels will rise quick) and 1 piece of clean up crew(CUC) per gallon in a mature tank. I would start my system out with 1 piece of CUC/5 gallons and add from there as needed. They feed of detritus and algae and can and will starve in a new tank if there are too many too fast. Remember that patience is key in marine aquaria, if it seems like its going to slow you're still probably moving too fast. This will give you a ton of time to read and research, be sure to check out the Articles section and database that has been constructed on this site, they are awesome!

Best wishes on your endeavor and I hope to see you out on the boards!

I don't mind at all, I started this thread so I could have experienced people pick my list apart. I think 70 lbs. of rock should be ok with the size tank. And thats a good thing to know about the fish because I had read somewhere on the internet that it was like 1.5" of fish for every gallon of water ... my tank would have been way overstocked then. Right now I have both, Marine Aquarium Handbook and The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, I'm in the process of reading both of them.
So, do I not need a external filter at all? I think from what I've been reading the protien skimmer and live rock are supposed to serve that purpose, right?

 

[Bifferwine]

1.5" of fish per gallon is the rule for freshwater. In saltwater, it's more like 1 fish per 10 gallons.

You don't need an external filter if you have live rock and a protein skimmer. Keeps it simple and it works!

 

[RyanG]

So, do I not need a external filter at all? I think from what I've been reading the protien skimmer and live rock are supposed to serve that purpose, right?

That is exactly correct Brian, your live rock and skimmer will be your filtration. If you are into reading up on it for reassurance google "the berlin method with skimming" somewhere down the line you might want a media reactor for running GFO(phosphate export) and carbon(removes chemicals from the water, some corals are especially "pungent"{soft corals and zoanthids especially, along with some strong LPS Hydnophora IE} and will secrete chemicals that can irritate all the corals in a tank during stress events). The following link is the one that I use, its cheap and very useful.

Dual BRS GFO and Carbon Reactor - English

Have you already purchased you tank?

 

[beano]

as far as equipment goes these guys have you covered. invest in a quality skimmer and lights...and lots of liverock.

for your fish list, your "must have" category is about all you will get away with, and you would have to change most of those "1 or 2"s into "1"s.

 

[BL1]

Have you already purchased you tank?

No, I haven't bought anything yet because I was going to start with a 29g nano-cube but, I was reading somewhere that those all in one systems may not be all they're cracked up to be so I made this list ... I really want to do a lot more research and reading before I even start buying anything because if I start buying things now I'm sure I will regret it sometime down the road (I'm sure I'll still buy things that I regret but, I'd like to lessen the amount of things by waiting). And it's very hard for me, as my patience far things I really want is short :mrgreen:

 

[rwynn]

Going to agree with everything said so far, and after just getting into the hobby myself I can tell you this. I've got a 40g and now that it has water and a few fish in it. ALL I talk about is one day when I can get a 125g or larger...my advice for your sanity's sake is to get as big of a tank as you can possibly afford.

The livestock options and diversity increase dramatically as your tank size goes up. Specifically 70+ when considering Tangs of any type.

 

[Bifferwine]

The all in one tanks aren't bad at all. They are, admittedly, usually more expensive than if you just bought all the components separate, but they do look nice. I have a 12 gallon BioCube (currently not in use), and it looks really sharp.

They are small though. In a 12 gallon BioCube, you can only keep one or two small fish. If you put your own tank together, you can customize a lot of things, and that's an option you don't have with an all in one setup. Another downside is that the lights that come with them are usually not strong enough to keep anything that you may want. With the all in one setups, you are limited to soft and LPS corals. Usually no LPS, clams or anemones. You probably wouldn't want to keep any of those animals in such a small tank anyways!