Question on cycling...

[adudle00]

So last Sunday I finally got my 14 gallon biocube set up and going. It has 14lbs of live rock and many little hitchhikers. =) I've been testing my water parameters and nothing has happened...everything is still at 0. I thought the live rock would be enough to start the cycle, but it hasn't. The 'things' in the tank seem to be doing okay...there's quite a few starfish, some snails and a mushroom coral. There's a lot of hair algae starting to grow as well.

Soo...my question is, what should I do? Should I just leave it alone and see if something happens? Should I add in a tiny piece of raw shrimp to spike the ammonia? (If so, how long would I leave it in the tank before removing it?) Should I start adding CUC members? At the same time, I don't want to kill the things already living in the tank. I'm really just not sure what to do.. :dunno: Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[fastrd400]

Ashley,drop in some fish food and let that rot I'm the tank. Wait a few days and test for ammonia. If you have ammonia, then test the rest. It all has start with ammonia.

 

[Ulta]

Well you have 2 options imo,

#1 you can put the shrimp in at let it spike ammonia yes.

or

#2 you can bank on the fact that there were healthy levels of bacteria on your rocks already. And in this case start to add critters.

If you do go route #2 you should move very slowly, keeping in mind that you might not have a large bacteria population. Add CUC first, then add like 1 small fish at a time prolly spacing out additions in a 2-3 week min time frame. By only adding a little bio loads at a time and spacing them out giving your bacteria populations time to catch up to the increased bio-load.

 

[Ulta]

I like Fast's Idea with the fish food :) prolly like a small pinch worth

 

[adudle00]

I like Fast's Idea with the fish food :) prolly like a small pinch worth

I actually don't have any fish food....Could I used a tiny tiny piece of a shrimp?

Also, if I did already have healthy levels of bacteria and I added the shrimp or food, what would happen, in comparison to if I didn't have much bacteria in there? Would the cycle move faster or the ammonia not spike as high?

 

[little_fish]

You should move slowly on fish even if you do have a huge load of bacteria.

Also, just use a small chunk of raw table shrimp. If you have a healthy load of bacteria, you wont see any ammonia. If you dont have enough bacteria, then you will see your cycle begin.

Also with the shrimp, i would throw in a small chunk and remove it within the next few days. Dont let it completely rot in there.

 

[fastrd400]

Use a small piece of shrimp. Either way your levels will go up.

 

[adudle00]

Use a small piece of shrimp. Either way your levels will go up.

Does the amount of shrimp added affect how fast/high the ammonia will rise? As in, will there be less of a spike if i use only a tiny amount.

Will doing this kill off the things currently living in the tank?

If the tank was left alone for a long period of time, say a month, with no initial cycle, would all the bacteria eventually appear, or does this only happen during a cycle?

 

[Ulta]

Its a balance game...

where you must try to balance your bacteria populations with your bio-load

if your bio-load is small your bacteria pop will shrink (due to no food)

if your bio-load increases your bacteria pop will grow (due to being able to supply enough food for a larger population)

if you have a large spike in your bio-load (like a death or a raw shrimp decay) now you have MUCH excess food and will see the cycle. The first bacteria pop to grow would be the initial ones that break down (decay) their waste product is ammonia. Since that bacteria will grow exponentially you will see an ammonia spike of excess ammonia (bad for critters) and it takes a while for the next set of bacteria to catch up in population, but once it does uses up the ammonia. So on and so forth for the next stage, Nitrite and then end product is Nitrate.

Until all 3 bacteria populations balance out. Once that happens any decay gets converted and as fast as its converted its used up. So your parameters will all read zero except Nitrate.

*Mind Bender*
So if you cycle your tank with a raw decaying shrimp and you have a large cycle,
How long will it take for your bacteria populations to starve(because low bio-load) and start to shrink again??? eh?

basically, as hobbyists we bank on not changing the bio-load very fast that way there adequate time for your bacteria populations to catch up without very much of a diff in water quality.

 

[little_fish]

There will be less of a spike because there is less to rot and produce ammonia. And yes, if you have a cycle it might kill some of your inhabitants already in there, but if you havent cycled your tank at all you are always going to have that risk until you finish cycling it.

I would get it over now while you dont have a lot of things worth loosing.

 

[adudle00]

Its a balance game...

where you must try to balance your bacteria populations with your bio-load

if your bio-load is small your bacteria pop will shrink (due to no food)

if your bio-load increases your bacteria pop will grow (due to being able to supply enough food for a larger population)

if you have a large spike in your bio-load (like a death or a raw shrimp decay) now you have MUCH excess food and will see the cycle. The first bacteria pop to grow would be the initial ones that break down (decay) their waste product is ammonia. Since that bacteria will grow exponentially you will see an ammonia spike of excess ammonia (bad for critters) and it takes a while for the next set of bacteria to catch up in population, but once it does uses up the ammonia. So on and so forth for the next stage, Nitrite and then end product is Nitrate.

Until all 3 bacteria populations balance out. Once that happens any decay gets converted and as fast as its converted its used up. So your parameters will all read zero except Nitrate.

*Mind Bender*
So if you cycle your tank with a raw decaying shrimp and you have a large cycle,
How long will it take for your bacteria populations to starve(because low bio-load) and start to shrink again??? eh?

basically, as hobbyists we bank on not changing the bio-load very fast that way there adequate time for your bacteria populations to catch up without very much of a diff in water quality.

So how does adding the raw shrimp differ from slowly adding livestock? Wouldn't that slowly increase the bioload? or do CUC members (snails, shrimp, etc) just not create much waste, and therefore add very little to the bioload? Would that be a safer route to go? Or is the raw shrimp safer? (In terms of keeping everything in the tank alive)
Thanks for explaining everything to me, its starting make a lot more sense. =)

 

[little_fish]

Inverts dont add to the bioload like fish do. Its basically like you have a house with 3 people living it, they can all happily use one toilet. But if you have 15 people move in, you need to add more toilets before they move it.

Adding the table shrimp is like adding the extra toilets so when you have the fish move in there are plenty of toilets.

But the construction guys can only work so fast, so cant have all 15 people move in at once. They can move in in small groups as you have enough toilets per person. That is why we add fish slowly, so the bacteria can grow.

 

[adudle00]

Okay, so yesterday I broke up some little pieces of the shrimp and dropped it in the tank, as well as a little dried seaweed. I don't know how fast that would cause anything to rise, but I checked everything again today and It's all still at 0. However, if I do the ammonia test according to directions by waiting for 5 minutes (API brand), it's at 0. If I wait for 10 minutes though, it goes up to 0.25 and stays there, no matter how long it sits. Am I correct in assuming it's at 0, since by the directions I should read the results after 5 minutes?

Also, how often should I perform water changes if the parameters are okay? Should I still do it once a week no matter what? Or only when I see a rise in something? Also, how much water should be changed at a time? 10%? 25%?

 

[Ulta]

Your correct assuming its zero. There might just be a hint of ammonia hence it turning color the longer it sits. But its not .25 or else it would have been that color at 5 mins time.

You should keep up 10% weekly, especially since your tank is new it will help keep things more stable. If you start to have problems that's when you may resort to larger water changes.