Quick question on additives

Gdbyrd

Gdbyrd

life's a beach
Well, so far I haven't had to add anything to my tank. But I'm thinking I might start to. My dkh is at 7, which is normal but kinda low. So if it gets any lower I'm gonna start adding but I don't know how it works.

Let's say I test it today and its 6. Do I add stuff once check it and if its at 7 just leave it alone until my next water change? Or do I have to continue adding it daily to keep levels where I want? Not sure how quickly the levels come down.

Or would it be better to just start doing more water changes to help replenish used stuff? Is there no avoiding additives?
 
How often do you do water changes? If it is once every couple weeks, I would do them once a week. If it is already once a week, and it is staying at 7, I wouldnt dose anything. If it does get too low, then dose but test anytime before you would dose anything. Just dont start throughing stuff into your tank.

Brian
 
Nothings wrong with my water, I'm just asking how you do dose. I test and its low, even with my twice weekly water changes.

How quickly is the stuff absorbed and used? Do you have to start testing daily to see if you need to add more? Or is it something you do once with your water changes and it'll last?
 
What brand salt do you use? What are the parameters of a new batch of salt that you use for water changes? Have you ever checked a fresh mix for calcium or alk?
To determine how much, if any dosing your tank needs, test the alk everyday with a good test kits that will measure in .5 dKH increments or less. You want an accurate test kit. For every 2.8 dKH (1 meq/l) of alk your tank uses, it will also use aprox 20 ppm of calcium.
Once you know how much of a demand your tank has, use this Reef Chemistry Calculator to determine how much you need to dose.
 
:frustrat: if only my math teach told me back in school that I would need that crap for my aquarium :pissed:

:mrgreen:
 
I got into a hissy adding buffers and other junk to try and keep my parameters at "textbook" numbers. Waste of time and money.

If it's 7 today and you dose it, it'll be 9 for 24-36hrs. Then it'll be right back at 7. So you figure - okay, I'll dose every 3rd day. For what? The parameters are just going to swing up and down every 3 days.

Long term stability is more important than textbook parameters. Do weekly water changes. If it holds steady at 7 - screw it. Kick back and watch your corals grow.

My pH still runs around 8.0 - 8.1 in the display. I went nuts trying to dose it up to 8.3 All it did was jump to 8.4 for a day and then it was right back down to 8.0. So whats more important for the corals? Constantly swinging pH levels (or dkh levels) or long term stability?

Even daily swings from 8.4 and down to 8.3 the next day and then 8.2 and then 8.1 the day after that -- even though that may seam like small amounts to you and I, it's not normal for the corals to experience that much constant swinging in the ocean. You dose it back up to 8.4 and watch it fade back down to 8.0 on the 3rd day.

If it's within reason - even if it's low -- better to run a STEADY reef than a reef with constantly swinging chemistry.

Just my opinion. Been there, done that. Screw it. I change water weekly and don't even test anymore. Corals were growing so much I had to set up a 10g frag tank to deal with the overgrowth. Now the frag tank is overgrown with frags -- what do do????????? :shock:

Relax. Take some pictures. Have a beer. Take the dosing crap back to the LFS and get a new coral instead. :bounce:
 
Rcpilot said:
If it's 7 today and you dose it, it'll be 9 for 24-36hrs. Then it'll be right back at 7. So you figure - okay, I'll dose every 3rd day. For what? The parameters are just going to swing up and down every 3 days.
Click to expand...
What? LOL That makes absolutely no sense. You do things your way, but please don't pass bad advise around.
 
It's not bad information. It's my OPINION -- we ARE still allowed to post opinions here...... right?

I don't think you understood what I was getting at.

Let's say the dkh is 7 today.

Now you add x amount of chemicals to bump the dkh up to 9

Now test it tomorrow. 8.6

Now test it the next day. 7.9

And the next day. 7.0

Well looky there!!! It's back down to 7. :frustrat:

So you dose it up to 9 again.

Now test it tomorrow.

Now test it the next day.

And the next day.

And it's back down to 7 :frustrat:

It's a vicious circle. And it just makes your tank parameters swing up and down all the time. Thats my whole point. Sure, you can dose it up to textbook parameters. And it'll just fall back down to where it was in a couple days. The cycle goes on and on.

Better to just live with it at 7 if the corals and fish are happy and not showing signs of stress. They will be happier with constant parameters than constant swings.
 
I don't think you understood what I was getting at.

Let's say the dkh is 7 today.

Now you add x amount of chemicals to bump the dkh up to 9

Now test it tomorrow. 8.6

Now test it the next day. 7.9

And the next day. 7.0

Well looky there!!! It's back down to 7. :frustrat:

So you dose it up to 9 again.

Now test it tomorrow.

Now test it the next day.

And the next day.

And it's back down to 7 :frustrat:

Maybe it's not EXACTLY 3 days before it's back down to 7. Maybe it's 4 days or maybe it's 2 days. The point is you are introducing a pattern of constantly swinging chemistry.

It's a vicious circle. And it just makes your tank parameters swing up and down all the time. Thats my whole point. Sure, you can dose it up to textbook parameters. And it'll just fall back down to where it was in a couple days. The cycle goes on and on.

So do you then dose your new saltwater before it hits the tank? Maybe your new saltwater has a dkh of 7 and a pH of 8.0? You gonna dose it before it hits the tank that you just dosed up to ph 8.3 and dkh 9.0? If you don't then you're REALLY chasing your own tail.

Better to just live with it if the corals and fish are happy and not showing signs of stress. They will be happier with constant parameters than constant swings. Doesn't matter if the ph is 7.9 and the dkh is only 9.0. It's STABLE over a long period of time and thats what makes corals happy.
 
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Rcpilot said:
Better to just live with it at 7 if the corals and fish are happy and not showing signs of stress. They will be happier with constant parameters than constant swings.
Click to expand...
Yep, everyone has an opinion, just like everyone has an a-hole. Some just stink more than others.
Well then how come if you bump it up to 9, it will drop to 7, but it you keep it at 7 it won't drop? Your explanation makes no sense. Dosing keeps the parameters stable...IF you have the demand. If you have no coral, bump it up to 9 and it will stay there. If there is no calcification, the carbonates are not going to be depeleted.
You didn't mention calcium. If you use 2 dKH of alk, what about the aprox 150ppm calcium that MUST be used up also? Or does your magic system make it's own calcium?
 
Why are you insulting me and being sarcastic? I'm just talking here. No need to get nasty Captain. My opinion may stink like an A-hole -- but right now your superior ATTITUDE smells just like one. Aren't you a moderator? How about dropping the attitude and having a civil discussion without being an Ass?

Tanks find their own stability over time.

I don't "keep" my pH at 8.0 That tank settled down and doesn't go below that. The tank found it's own happy medium and adjusted itself there. It's stable at 8.0 pH, so I don't screw with it.

Just like a tank with dkh of 7. If it was stable there and wasn't swinging up and down, I wouldn't screw with it. If it drops to 5, I might begin to dig a bit and see if I could find out why it was so low. I might start testing my RO water and my new saltwater first. A dkh of 7 is slightly low, but it's not dangerous. If the corals are happy, leave it be.
 
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RC's right. what he's describing is chemical equilibrium. Here's how it works in regard to the various carbonates.

As CO2 dissolves in your water via gas exchange, it turns into carbonic acid. (H2CO3)... this is why people see a lowering of pH if there's not adequate oxygen exchange at the water surface. Now, carbonic acid dissociates (which means looses an H) to form bicarbonate, which then further dissociates to form carbonate. Bicarbonate and carbonate are essentially what dKH measures. Now, with all these reactions, it's important to realize they're completely reversible-- but the rate of the forward reaction and the backward reaction are not the same. That means, over time, you'll end up with more of a particular compound than the others, but the others almost never disappear altogether. At pH 8, most of the carbonate is in the form of bicarbonate, which is what we want. BUT, if you have a lot of CO2 coming into your system (IE, not enough oxygen to out-compete CO2) then the result is more carbonic acid. SO, the bottom line is, it's a very complex system, and no one factor is isolated. And RC's right-- a tank will naturally reach its own equilibrium. And I believe that if that is within safe parameters, don't dose.

Why? Because , if you add bicarbonate to the system, the result is that over time, equilibrium will be re-established, which for this tank, will likely result in simply producing more carbonic acid/carbonate, and being low on bicarb. Like RC said, it's a vicous cycle. If you're worried about your levels, do water changes, and open some windows. you'll be surprised how much that changes the water chemistry.

For a summary of the reactions I'm talking about, see this freshman chem summary I found.
 

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