Rock/New Tank Questions?

[phastroh]

My rock/tank/aquascape project that happened last night.

I have a 80Gal Bow front with 160Pounds of rock(did)

It was 80Live and 80Dry to start about 5-6 months ago.

Lat night I made the decision to remove roughly 1/2 of the rock. I cannot verify it was exactly 50% but I have 2, 5 gallon buckets filled with the rock that is all the base rock I started with but I did keep a few pieces to stack on.

It is pretty close in the end. I do still have some small amount of rock where my skimmer is.

Now I do not really know how the biological filter will be affected at this point. There was a lot of Crushed Coral dust floating around and to the point is was hard to see. Not that you couldn't see in the tank but it was not good. I had the system off for roughly 1 hour and maybe 30 minutes or less.

I had to slowly rake my Crushed Coral and flatten it some. The rocks were done in shift with me keeping my Live rock on one side of the tank as we pulled them and flushed them with RO/DI Water then put them in my Brute Can with warmed saltwater just to keep them covered.

Eventually the ground was filled with the rock I wasn't going to use except a few pieces for stacking and I put the live rock back in and slowly merged to two camps from the brute and what was in the tank into what is now my new aquascape.

I was worried the whole time as I was constantly putting snails, urchins and crabs back in the tank. In the end the tank cleared up quickly and it looks so much more roomy in there. I actually have a lot of floor space now and yet the fish still have plenty of hiding space. I am actually excited that I may see some life in all these empty areas now WOOT TOOT!

NOTE: I had to add all I had left in saltwater back into the tank due to less displacement and all the water lost during having hands in the tank 50,000 times.

I checked the water this morning
AMMONIA - 0
NITRITES - 0
NITRATES - 10
SALINITY - Will check tonight but should be .024 like usual.
I already have a batch of new saltwater mixing since last night just in case. I changed it Saturday the day before this work though.

So now the thoughts I had/have on this.

How long will it take for the bacteria on the rocks in the 5 gallon buckets to be useless? I am not overly concerned as I don't want it in my tank.

I am saving it for my 180Gal that I will be buying.

Now follow me on this next long part. The goal is to for once and all rid myself of the Mantis when setting up the new tank without having to hunt it down.

My thing is this. If there is a Mantis in the drying rock in the 2, 5 gallon buckets it will already be dead I am assuming after 1 day with no water.

Is this right?

If so I wanted to cycle the new tank with the dried out rock using new substrate and Dr. Tims One and Only(It works)

Then after the tank is cycled and ready for the fish and corals take all of the currently used Live Rock out and let it sit in the air for 1 day or however long it will take to kill any pests. I would leave the fish with no rocks but ones with no holes from the dry rock that cycled in the 180gal just so they can hide away from each other.

Now I can catch the fish finally and possible get rid of the Damsel that is stressing out the Hippo Tang(I think he is in my opinion)

Ok so after a day or 2 put the live rock(I don't think it will be live after sitting out for 2 days) in the 180Gal and then catch the fish and bag them fro acclimation into the 180Gal.

I know there is a faster way but my main goal is to (I hate to say it this way) kill the pests in the rocks. I CANNOT have that clicking sound return into the new tank. I CANNOT have any chance a Mantis makes it into the new tank. It is somewhat IMPOSSIBLE to catch him otherwise. I AM NOT pouring soda in every hole and most you can't even see. :frustrat::grumble::death:

Sorry for the caps but I like them.

What say you?

 

[613ReefGuy]

I am not an expert at all to be answering any of this, but if you want to ship me the Mantis I will take it :)

Nitrates are likely high because of the sand being stirred around, I will leave this to the pros though.

 

[Sir Alex]

I am not an expert at all to be answering any of this, but if you want to ship me the Mantis I will take it :)

Nitrates are likely high because of the sand being stirred around, I will leave this to the pros though.

10 is alright for soft corals.

 

[Reef Nutz]

Put the rock into the brute with alot of salt in it. the critters that are in the rock will bail out of the sinking ship, so to speak. The mantis may not neccessarily be dead after not being in the water for a day. If you want everything dead and waiting to be planted in the 180g, sit the rock outside and let the sun bake it for a few days.

 

[phastroh]

Well he let me clear up the timing on this and make my plan more clear.(I hope)

I do not have the 180gal tank yet. It will be a month or two.

So all the rock that is drying in the 5 gallon buckets will be out at least a month so there will be no life left on them. Well I mean no pests as far as Mantis Shrimp are concerned.

When I do get my new tank I will be putting all new substrate and the dried out base rock into it along with Dr. Tims One and Only to cycle it as fast as possible. I say if One and Only is good enough to work for the Georgia Aquarium and many others it is good enough for me. of course I will monitor the tank and not just pour it in and say finished. You may get a bottle of dead bacteria, you never know.

Once the 180Gal tank is completely cycled I plan on taking the live rock from my 80Gal and letting it sit out for 2-3 days to kill the pests. BUT I would rather hear better ideas that may allow me to just transfer the rock all at one time, even if I have to say treat one rock at a time to rid/kill/catch the Mantis. NO I do not want to kill it but I will not lie I would rather kill it than have it back in my new tank but again I don't want to kill it.

Reef Nutz your idea is opposite to what I did to all the rock(Used RO/DI Water) in my tank that I left and I still hear the sounds BUT I also heard the sound coming from the crushed coral as if they were not in the rocks as I did scoop one up right from the crushed coral but people say they are just Pistol Shrimp. I saw with my own eyes 2 different Mantis Shrimp. One purple and one Multi-Color 2 inchers. The purple could have been a Pistol but the Green and Rainbow one was a mantis as I saw it flicking the stick I had by it. I also saw it up on a rock at one point.

In the end I will be cycling with base rock that is pest free by 2 months so then the only worry I will have it the live rock I have in my tank now and not all of the pieces have holes.

To me it is almost worth it to let it dry for a week and add it slowly back into the new tank one at a time per week. How much of a cycle can one piece make in a 180gal tank or even 2 pieces a week. I hate to go that slow but it is worth it not to have a Mantis even if there isn't one in the tank anymore. It could have died in the drying rock as I have never found it.

I am also going to be taking my crushed coral and rinsing some to add into my new tank. Not the whole floor but just a little in a few areas but not enough to make it a crap trap. It is so nice looking to me. It is not the bagged type it is very multi sized and multi colored. I do not want a crushed coral bed anymore but I also want to have it lightly there in some spot to make it look more realistic as it does now.

Ok what do you think.

 

[Sir Alex]

Why don't you put the rock in a bucket of cold water?

And I don't recommend the crushed coral. You're going to regret it in the future.

 

[d2mini]

My thing is this. If there is a Mantis in the drying rock in the 2, 5 gallon buckets it will already be dead I am assuming after 1 day with no water.

Is this right?

You would be surprised how much water the rock can hold in all those little nooks and crannies and how little is needed for creatures to survive. Maybe after a week? 1 day is nothing.

Where/why did you get crushed coral?


This thread makes me sad. :(
But i guess you have to do what's right for you.

 

[phastroh]

I got the Crushed Coral from TBS where the rocks came from.

I have had no problems with the Crushed Coral so far. I can't even called it Crushed Coral really because it is not crushed it is just straight off the Gulf of Mexicos floor like the rock and it looks so nice.

I will only be using it a decor not as a substrate. I kind of feel like it has made my tank stronger because it came filled to the rim with bacteria.

If I can catch the Mantis I will keep him safe and sound but he may have died or may have been eaten by the Eel I had. It has been a long time since I heard a loud pop. I only hear tiny-med clicks which I can't even believe come from this 1/2 inch or less shrimps I caught.

The rocks will have been out of water for 1-2 months.

 

[Sir Alex]

Are you sure that what you're hearing isn't a pistol shrimp? They click as well.

 

[phastroh]

It could be but I saw the Mantis 100% with my own eyes. It was exactly like those Green with rainbow colors and it was punching the stick I had by it.

I don't hear the LOUD pops and I have heard some super loud ones before and I know there are hermits missing.

Just stopped hearing them and I do not know why.

 

[BL1]

You constantly claim that there are no problems with crushed coral substrate but, you're tanks been fully cycled for 3 maybe 4 months now? That's hardly long enough to claim that you have done it and had no issues.

With that being said, While TBS sand is pretty big it's definitely not the same as crushed coral. I've had the TBS sand in my nano for over a year now, I didn't like it at first but it's grown on me (I still like fine grain sand more though).

 

[phastroh]

Yeah I guess that is true on the time thing but I have had no problems so far at least. I thought I usually say so far when I say no problems.

It is also true that I too I grown to love the look. It just looks so natural and pretty and no beach like.

I guess that is why I want the sand but will use the TBS sand for decorating in some areas where the rocks go in like dip in and maybe near the ends of the rocks like the ends of the reef areas just for accent.

I will most likely also purchase a dead piece of coral as well that is plant like in shape and toss some TBS sand around in or sprinkle it and let it fall where it may.

As you know then the TBS at the bottom 1 inch or more is fine sand as well. I can see it from below but it is gray/tan in color on mine.

 

[d2mini]

Ya, the TBS sand is not "crushed coral".

It is a large substrate, not well suited to nano tanks. But for large tanks I think it's very natural looking and works well with my vortechs. Even still i have to turn the vortechs down a bit. I couldn't imagine having sugar sized substrate. I like it when I see it in other peoples tanks though, if it's kept nice and clean.

 

[phastroh]

Ya, the TBS sand is not "crushed coral".

It is a large substrate, not well suited to nano tanks. But for large tanks I think it's very natural looking and works well with my vortechs. Even still i have to turn the vortechs down a bit. I couldn't imagine having sugar sized substrate. I like it when I see it in other peoples tanks though, if it's kept nice and clean.

Yeah so how could I keep it clean in the 180Gal. I stir the front area against the glass once in a while but there is no way the hermits can really take care of all areas.

I really want to use the sand so in the long run it stays cleaner and maybe be able to keep the Nitrates below 10.

I use Dr. Tims Waste-Away and my Nitrates went from 40 to 10 over the last month to month and a half. I have to credit the Dr. TIms. He also sells another product called Re-FRESH which helps against Cytano or Diatoms.

I know people will say it is junk and not to put chemicals in your tank(No chemicals in it) but I give his Waste-Away the credit because no amount of water changes worked. It is the only thing I have changed since and I am about to order some more along with the Re-FRESH.

 

[Sir Alex]

Yeah so how could I keep it clean in the 180Gal. I stir the front area against the glass once in a while but there is no way the hermits can really take care of all areas.

I really want to use the sand so in the long run it stays cleaner and maybe be able to keep the Nitrates below 10.

I use Dr. Tims Waste-Away and my Nitrates went from 40 to 10 over the last month to month and a half. I have to credit the Dr. TIms. He also sells another product called Re-FRESH which helps against Cytano or Diatoms.

I know people will say it is junk and not to put chemicals in your tank(No chemicals in it) but I give his Waste-Away the credit because no amount of water changes worked. It is the only thing I have changed since and I am about to order some more along with the Re-FRESH.

Maybe the coral rubble stuff is what was causing your nitrate problem. Maybe if you get rid of that you'll have an easier time keeping them at 10 or below.

 

[d2mini]

Maybe the coral rubble stuff is what was causing your nitrate problem. Maybe if you get rid of that you'll have an easier time keeping them at 10 or below.

I doubt it.
I have the same gulf floor sand and have never had nitrates over 10. Usually they dont register at all.


For size/texture reference, here's a couple pics of my sand. Straight down with a small clam, some blue leg hermits and a snail. And another shot showing the power of the vortechs... not at full power. Beach anyone? :mrgreen: Now that I've tweaked the bottom vortech and put a galaxia in that corner you no longer see glass.

 

[BL1]

I doubt it.
I have the same gulf floor sand and have never had nitrates over 10. Usually they dont register at all.

+1 same here.

 

[little_fish]

Have you considered your nitrates might have dropped because you finally got a test kit that read correctly?!?!?!?

Personally, i think your nitrates have always been around 10 ppm.

 

[phastroh]

The first test kit was a Red Sea and it read 50+

The API I bought was saying 40 but it slowly came down over time to 10.

The only thing I added to my normal water changes were the Waste-Away and now I have most Salifert kits and it reads 10 still.

The Waste-Away is meant to keep your gravel clean by putting bacteria in the tank that feeds off the waste. I know you don't think anything works or shall I say without proof but this is proof that it works for me.

Whether it was the reason or not I do not know why it went down while I used it and at the same time went from 2 to 8 fish.

Did you see the link I posted where they show the Georgia Aquarium using the Tim's One and Only to get the new Dolphin Tank ready. I would think they know what they are doing so why would you not use it yourself.

I have some now and will be using it to set up the new tank so then I will find out for myself and I will make sure to post it here win or lose.

By the way D2 that Crushed Coral looks frikin great. Now you or anyone can see why I like it so much. It is beautiful and full of colors.

It makes me second guess getting all sand but I am still concerned about the long run over using a smaller substrate. I could always double up on my CUC and get a lot more cleaner shrimps and stuff like that. I like the sand but it pales in beauty in my opinion and I don't know if it will ensure 0 Nitrates or the long term use of it.

 

[d2mini]

By the way D2 that Crushed Coral looks frikin great. Now you or anyone can see why I like it so much. It is beautiful and full of colors.

IT'S NOT CRUSHED CORAL!!! :grumble: