SPS Frag Receeding
- Thread starter Rcpilot
- Start date
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
What can I do? Does it need more light? Less light?
I had it on a frag rack right up under the surface of the water - like 1/2" under the water. It's like 3" under 78w of PC light - so pretty bright.
Throw it away? :mrgreen:
I had it on a frag rack right up under the surface of the water - like 1/2" under the water. It's like 3" under 78w of PC light - so pretty bright.
Throw it away? :mrgreen:
bjohanson1234
.........
I dont know much aboout SPS either. But I believe an Iodine dip wouldnt hurt and might help any infection issues.
Brian
Brian
RyanG
Reef enthusiast
Looks like a lack of flow problem to me RC. Or it could definately be a parameter problem, they are much more sensitive to change than LPS. Its browning out too, might want to have your PO4 tested. Im good at killing sps not great at keeping them
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
Yote must be watching football............ he'd know what to do
bjohanson1234
.........
If dcan stops by you know he will say
TAKE IT OUT!!!!!!:mrgreen:
TAKE IT OUT!!!!!!:mrgreen:
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
Did some testing. pH was down to about 7.6 and dkh was 2.4. I used some B-Ionic and dosed it up.
All the plumbing work I did in the last couple days - added over 60lbs of sand to the new refugium - started and stopped the pump about 20 times .......
It's probably going to take some time for things to settle down. I think the refugium is going to cycle - despite my efforts to inhibit that by seeding with live sand from the old 10g tank. Tested ammonia and looks like i might have just a touch of it in the tank - it's between 0.0 and .25 - ya know how these color charts are.
The frag is gone. It's almost 50% white now and the greenish brown layer on the outside is flaking off bit by bit. It sure happened fast.
All the plumbing work I did in the last couple days - added over 60lbs of sand to the new refugium - started and stopped the pump about 20 times .......
It's probably going to take some time for things to settle down. I think the refugium is going to cycle - despite my efforts to inhibit that by seeding with live sand from the old 10g tank. Tested ammonia and looks like i might have just a touch of it in the tank - it's between 0.0 and .25 - ya know how these color charts are.
The frag is gone. It's almost 50% white now and the greenish brown layer on the outside is flaking off bit by bit. It sure happened fast.
yote
In Memoriam
Thats call RTN Rc.Rapid Tissue Necrosis.
The low PH and alkalinity is probably what got it.SPS has to have stable conditions along with good PH,and IMO,a PH of now lower than 8.0.I've found they do best when the PH is closer to 8.4- 8.5.
When SPS start to RTN,about all you can do is frag it off making sure to cut into healthy flesh and hope for the best.
OH,and its also contagious to any other SPS you have in the tank.
The low PH and alkalinity is probably what got it.SPS has to have stable conditions along with good PH,and IMO,a PH of now lower than 8.0.I've found they do best when the PH is closer to 8.4- 8.5.
When SPS start to RTN,about all you can do is frag it off making sure to cut into healthy flesh and hope for the best.
OH,and its also contagious to any other SPS you have in the tank.
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
It's pretty much gone. pH is too low
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
:grumble:
dcantucson
Reef pro
Rc that is what has happened to almost every one of my SPS too. I suffer from low PH (and frustration) too.
I join you. :grumble::grumble::grumble:
I join you. :grumble::grumble::grumble:
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
It sucks!! I don't want to sound silly - but I have avoided SPS for a long time because I always thought to do it right you need a calc reactor and dosing pumps to keep the parameters perfect.
I find LPS much more beautiful to look at. SPS all look like tree branches to me -- well most of them. I know there are some encrusting types, but they don't trip my trigger like a big puffy acan or trumpet coral.
SPS = difficult
LPS = beautiful
I'm not as good a reefer as I thought........ hell my tanks are probably filthy and thats just exactly where an LPS coral will do well.
I am seriously thinking about buying a package from Bulk Reef Supply and setting up to dose daily - or maybe run a kalk drip into my sump...... I don't know enough about chemistry to really understand how much kalk I need or how diluted it needs to be. After a lot of reading over the past few hours I've come to the conclusion B-Ionic doesn't actually raise pH. It raises ALKALINITY.
Right now my pH is 7.8 and my alk is 4.00 with DKH of 11.2 - thats at the high end of the recommended alk range - yett the pH hangs around 7.8
I started a thread in the Water Chemistry forum. Hoping CCapt will chime in or Yote...........
I find LPS much more beautiful to look at. SPS all look like tree branches to me -- well most of them. I know there are some encrusting types, but they don't trip my trigger like a big puffy acan or trumpet coral.
SPS = difficult
LPS = beautiful
I'm not as good a reefer as I thought........ hell my tanks are probably filthy and thats just exactly where an LPS coral will do well.
I am seriously thinking about buying a package from Bulk Reef Supply and setting up to dose daily - or maybe run a kalk drip into my sump...... I don't know enough about chemistry to really understand how much kalk I need or how diluted it needs to be. After a lot of reading over the past few hours I've come to the conclusion B-Ionic doesn't actually raise pH. It raises ALKALINITY.
Right now my pH is 7.8 and my alk is 4.00 with DKH of 11.2 - thats at the high end of the recommended alk range - yett the pH hangs around 7.8
I started a thread in the Water Chemistry forum. Hoping CCapt will chime in or Yote...........
dcantucson
Reef pro
I know exactly how you feel, Rc. I feel like you have to be a frickin' scientist to keep SPS. And then a little thing goes wrong and they're all a goner. There has to be a simpler solution.
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
I'm pretty serious about this frag tank that I just built. I have lofty goals and time is short. I have a specific deadline that I want to meet and then I plan to unleash my frags on the world. So, I feel pressured - I put the pressure on myself - but it's good to have goals.
I need a system that works. A complete system that is PROVEN. There's so many options. Kalk drip. Dosing pumps. pH probes hooked up to calc reactors all kinds of crap. I have no idea where to begin... I jst know that dumping liquid alkalinity into the tank on a daily basis is a pain in the ass and it usually just raises the pH. I tried all the SeaChem buffers. Tried the alkalinity buffer - tried the pH buffer. All crap. The Bulk Reef Supply product is MUCH more expensive - but does it work? I don't know anybody who has used it.
I need a system that works. A complete system that is PROVEN. There's so many options. Kalk drip. Dosing pumps. pH probes hooked up to calc reactors all kinds of crap. I have no idea where to begin... I jst know that dumping liquid alkalinity into the tank on a daily basis is a pain in the ass and it usually just raises the pH. I tried all the SeaChem buffers. Tried the alkalinity buffer - tried the pH buffer. All crap. The Bulk Reef Supply product is MUCH more expensive - but does it work? I don't know anybody who has used it.
daugherty
part time reefer
i use the 2m part from bulk reef supply. and like it very much. i got the starter kit and it is more than enough for me it will last a year or more. next i am going to get the big one they have for 60 bucks. you coould try dosing kalk i also dose kalk every now and then. my ph stays at 8.0 never more and never less i dont know why but one idea that i have is that my house has a higher co2 level and insted of the tank getting lots of o2 is is getting more co2 than o2. you can do an oxygen test all you do is pull some water out of the tank. test the ph than put an air stone in the cup of water and put the pump by an open window and test it again in an hour or so and if the ph goes up you know it is a co2 prob. could be something to think about rc.
ccCapt
Reef Hacker
Nothing happens fast in a reef tank (or frag tank in your case) except disasters. Just look how long it took the frag to RTN out to nothing. You did get it right tho as far as "clean" water vs. "dirty" water where soft corals and LPS thrive in less than pristine water while SPS need the highest water quality you can possibly attain.
IMO, the reason the frag RTN'ed was the alk is wayyyyyy to low. SPS = Stability Promotes Success. You are dumping in all kind of buffers which are causing your pH to fluctuate and alk to jump around...which is not a stable condition for SPS frags.
You can buy 2 part supplies from BRS, but I suggest you save some $ and buy some Arm&Hammer baking soda for your alk sullpement and since you live in CO, you should be able to find DowFlake ice melt (calcium chloride). This is the same stuff BRS sells.
An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System
I've been using this stuff for a few years and it works great. I dose aprox 250ml of each (calcium & alk) every day. It may seem like a hassle, but it takes about 10 secs to dose.
As far as your low pH issue, I posted a link in your other thread.
RyanG
Reef enthusiast
RC I will agree with Capt here. Use the BRS two part supplies + the Magnesium Hexahydrate flake. Use Randy Holmes-Farley's recipe and calculator and dose accordingly. The BRS may SEEM expensive BUT you are getting a lot of product for the money which leads to a lot of product to dose. A gallon of each of the two parts + the magnesium parts will last a long time in a 29 gallon frag system. You dont need to get ultra-high tech to be successful with this system either. You don't need a dosing pump but could use one if you are forgetful or arent home every day. A graduated cyliner would be ideal but a measuring cup would be suffice. One thing that would be really nice to have IMO is a medical grade heated stirrer as the alkalinity part is extremely hard to keep in suspension, that being said its still not necessary.
Maybe Capt will have a tip for keeping that part suspended?
Maybe Capt will have a tip for keeping that part suspended?
ccCapt
Reef Hacker
Dunno Ryan. Maybe your not mixing it to the proper proportions? I use Recipe 1 and it calls for 2 1/4 cups of BAKED baking soda for 1 gal of water. When I add the baking soda to the water, it dissolves in about 5 mins and always stays clear. Same with the calcium part. I add 2.5 cups of DowFlake to 1 gal of water. It mixes in less than 5 mins and stays clear. The mag part is 5 cups MagFlake and 3 cups Epsom salts for 1 gal. Even tho it all dissolves, some stuff settles out and I have to shake the jug when I dose.
RyanG
Reef enthusiast
Larry I end up with with a solid 1/8" of precipitate on the bottom of my jug, I do a double batch everytime I make mine so maybe that is the problem? Dunno
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
About how long do you think the starter kit would last? A year? 6 months?
I know I should not be in a hurry. But I am. I need to get this think loaded up with frags and get on the ball. I want a bunch corals to be ready in about 4 months.
