wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
Precisely how toxic is cyanobacteria to fish ? What would be its specific effects on bottom-dwelling fishes such as dragonets, blennies, etc coming in contact with it ?
Toxixity Of Cyano
- Thread starter wsboyette
- Start date
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
PS: Toxixity Of Cyano
Please pardon me for not checking Wikipedia first, I think I have found the answer in its article on cyano, it can actually cause something like ALS:
Some cyanobacteria produce toxins, called cyanotoxins. These include anatoxin-a, anatoxin-as, aplysiatoxin, cylindrospermopsin, domoic acid, microcystin LR, nodularin R (from Nodularia), or saxitoxin. Cyanobacteria reproduce explosively under certain conditions. This results in algal blooms, which can become harmful to other species if the cyanobacteria involved produce toxins.
These toxins can be neurotoxins, hepatotoxins, cytotoxins, and endotoxins, and can be toxic and dangerous to humans as well as other animals and marine life in general. Several cases of human poisoning have been documented but a lack of knowledge prevents an accurate assessment of the risks.[25][26][27] Recent studies suggest that significant exposure to high levels of some species of cyanobacteria causes amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, also known as Lou Gehrig's Disease). The Lake Mascoma ALS cluster [28] and Gulf War veteran's cluster are two notable examples.[
Please pardon me for not checking Wikipedia first, I think I have found the answer in its article on cyano, it can actually cause something like ALS:
Some cyanobacteria produce toxins, called cyanotoxins. These include anatoxin-a, anatoxin-as, aplysiatoxin, cylindrospermopsin, domoic acid, microcystin LR, nodularin R (from Nodularia), or saxitoxin. Cyanobacteria reproduce explosively under certain conditions. This results in algal blooms, which can become harmful to other species if the cyanobacteria involved produce toxins.
These toxins can be neurotoxins, hepatotoxins, cytotoxins, and endotoxins, and can be toxic and dangerous to humans as well as other animals and marine life in general. Several cases of human poisoning have been documented but a lack of knowledge prevents an accurate assessment of the risks.[25][26][27] Recent studies suggest that significant exposure to high levels of some species of cyanobacteria causes amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, also known as Lou Gehrig's Disease). The Lake Mascoma ALS cluster [28] and Gulf War veteran's cluster are two notable examples.[
little_fish
Moderator
Most of the cyano that grows in our tank is not toxic to our fish and inverts. It would be a very rare event to get a toxic strain in your tank.
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
Well, my mandarin is acting awfully sick, not moving about and feeding as is usual for him, just lying around. And it is not due to starvation; he's well filled out and had been feeding voraciously until after I tried to remove the cyano, which resulted in fragments of it blowing around in the tank. Water parameters are great, no obvious problem there. Here's what the mandarin looked like just before he became lethargic:
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
Update: My mandarin just turned up dead; the powerhead just finally washed him out from behind the rockwork..... :disappoin
little_fish
Moderator
what are your water parameters? The scaleless fish are much more sensitive to water quality issues
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
Nitrate under 10 ppm, nitrite zero, ammonia near zero, PH 8.2, SG 1.024 - Using RO water also.
little_fish
Moderator
and youre sure he wasnt pinched in the belly?
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
He does not appear to have been; dorsal & caudal fins were ragged but he had been up in a hole scraping his fins against the rock for the past day. There is a small sally lightfoot crab in the tank, but it is afraid of the fish and scurries away every time one comes near it, and it is well fed. I see no evidence of a crab having picked at his body or head, so I am not too suspicious of the crab (though I have not yet ruled that out). There is an obnoxious coral beauty angel but it had not bothered the mandarin in the previous week other than making close passes by him. He was a large size when I got him, but very healthy and active for the first week, feeding well on the pods - he was fat as butter. I wonder if he just was about to die of age ?
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Salty B
Reefing newb
Nitrate under 10....ammonia NEAR zero and cyano is present. I would almost bet money that your params are more out of whack than you think. Cyano doesn't just show up in perfect conditions, something has to feed it. False readings occur when nutrients get consumed at almost the same rate they are produced so things like cyano grows and the tests read low. Ammonia should be zero not NEAR.
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
I am having some difficult reading these Tetra test strips; maybe I should get the older type vial-and-reagent kits like I am more accustomed to so as to make sure. But the fish was doing fine for over a week, and the parameters were the same. He just became sick all of a sudden over the past couple of days....
Sir Alex
Dragon the eel (below)
More wood for their fires, loud neighours. Flashlight reveries caught in the headlights of a truck. Eating seeds is a pastime activity. The toxicity of cyano, of cyano...
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
Thanks for calling my attention to my typo LOL. Nice setup you have there, Sir Alex. Much easier to work with than this tall, thin monster I have. Barely room in my stand for a decent sump.
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Salty B
Reefing newb
Definitely get rid of the strips and get a better kit. You'll get much more accurate results.
Sir Alex
Dragon the eel (below)
Thanks for calling my attention to my typo LOL. Nice setup you have there, Sir Alex. Much easier to work with than this tall, thin monster I have. Barely room in my stand for a decent sump.
Thx. ;)
I don't suppose you got the lyrics did you? :?
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
Oh yes, brilliant ! Took me a bit to connect - don't think I had even heard much of System Of A Down in the past 8-10 years - brings back memories..... Just dug them up and added some of their stuff to my grunge collection.
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
As a matter of fact, the dual-duty (fresh/salt) Tetra test strips I have been using showed a slight ammonia presence in my RO water (and this RO unit has only been in service 3 months). But it could be due to the fact that my city is using chloramine now instead of plain chlorine it its water supply. I cannot believe that a tank that has been established this long (3 months) could have an elevated ammonia level unless something strange is going on. The clown, angel, damsel & inverts are all now doing fine in the tank.
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
Re: Toxicity Of Cyano
Well Salty et al,
The verdict is in on the water parameters. The ammonia is more elevated than I earlier thought, nearly 1 mg/l. I re-tested my RO water, and the same level of ammonia was indicated. I must contact my vendor regarding the RO problem, as the cursed Rocky Mount Utilities department is now putting chloramine in our water supply and it has to come out. :death:
The mandarin became sick immediately following my 30% water change, and I am now considering the less-than-stellar water conditions as a prime suspect.
Well Salty et al,
The verdict is in on the water parameters. The ammonia is more elevated than I earlier thought, nearly 1 mg/l. I re-tested my RO water, and the same level of ammonia was indicated. I must contact my vendor regarding the RO problem, as the cursed Rocky Mount Utilities department is now putting chloramine in our water supply and it has to come out. :death:
The mandarin became sick immediately following my 30% water change, and I am now considering the less-than-stellar water conditions as a prime suspect.
Northstar24
The Tang Herder
Even if there is ammonia in your source water, after going through an RO/DI it should no longer be present. That is where I would start. Ammonia is very toxic to fish, and even more so to scaleless fishes such as a mandarin.
I would also get rid of the test strips and get some liquid tests -and when doubting your own test results, I would take a water sample to your LFS and have them test to verify. My local fish store will test your water sample for free
I would also get rid of the test strips and get some liquid tests -and when doubting your own test results, I would take a water sample to your LFS and have them test to verify. My local fish store will test your water sample for free
wsboyette
Fishy, Fishy, Fishy, Fish
Interesting thing I found out about the RODI & Ammonia in water supplies. Ammonia is not removed by the RODI unit's membrane, but by a chemical prefilter. The older units, such as the one I have, utilized a prefilter that removed chlorine but not ammonia. Mine was manufactured before the use of chloramine (instead of plain free chlorine) in city water supplies became widespread, so it needed a newer type prefilter (which I have just ordered). No need to remind me how toxic ammonia is, and the chloramine my city recently began using is even more toxic ! Glad I don't drink that crap..... probably damage your liver faster than Jack Daniels.... :mrgreen:
And yes, I much prefer the liquid reagent test kits over the strips, they just seem so much easier to read.
