Washing live sand? (urgent)

[Laz]

Hi guys,

I'm cleaning out my tank and my sand is full of fish feces and other dirt build-up from old diatoms etc. It's not extremely dirty but it's extremely ugly to look at, so I'm considering taking the sand out and cleaning it. The tank was fully running yesterday and the water is still in it. I've been moving the sand around trying to pick up the dirt and debris from it but it's a losing battle as it's way too small and is all dug in with the live sand.

What's the best way of cleaning it? I was going to use just plain tap water as I imagine mixing a ton of saltwater is going to be a waste seeing as I'll be washing this out a lot to get everything out of it.

Will I cause an instant ammonia spike? My clowns and CUC are out in a bucket which can be their temporary home for a while until I sort this out, so that's not a concern, although I would like to get it back to an established set-up ASAP.

My LR is going to get a clean as it's also got this fudgy soft dirt on it's surface, but I'll be using saltwater so I don't kill it off.

If anyone could point out if it's alright to do and any advice, it would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Sidekick41]

I'm not 100% certain, but my gut would say not to do it. How are your Amonia, Nitrate, and Nitrite readings? this will tell you if you have a problem. If they are all normal, then I wouldn't do much. From what I know, if you mix too much up at one time, you can get an amonia spike. I try to stir up little pieces of my sand every now and then. I also use a turkey baster to blow off my live rock but overall I wouldn't take anything out of the tank to clean. Just seems like you will mix too much stuff up.

 

[Laz]

I think my nitrates are probably high, due to the fact I've seriously neglected water changes since purchasing my clowns. I just get the feeling that if I don't clean it out, it will continue to bother me. I've at least got the chance now, but I just wanted to know if washing the sand with regular tap water will kill off everything. I don't actually mind doing that, I just wanted to know if It'll still cause a spike after putting it back in and getting saltwater and the LR in the tank.

Edit:

By the way, I'm going to be doing a 100% water change. Once I've washed out the sand, I plan to put it back in and add fresh saltwater.

 

[ErinCahir]

This is a terrible idea. The majority of your bacteria live in your sand and your rock, cleaning/rinsing both of them off will kill most of them. You will literally be starting from nothing.

I realize it's frustrating to deal with parameters being off, but taking such drastic measures often gives you devastating results.

 

[chichimom79]

+1 Erin. If you want to change out your sand you have to do it in small sections. Do not clean your live rock. Get some more clean up crew to take care of that. And I wouldnt advise changing 100% of the water. At the most I would do 30% at a time, leaving your inhabitants in the tank so they aren't so stressed.

 

[Laz]

My inhabitants aren't in the tank as of right now. They're in a big bucket with the obvious equipment so they aren't in any danger or risk.

The thing is, it needs to be done. I've tried every way of cleaning it and it's progressively getting worse. I'm to blame because of my lack of water changes. I'm not going to extensively clean the rock, just brush off a lot of the excess debris and rubbish that's accumulated onto it. It'll all be done in saltwater so there is no major die off.

The sand has to be washed, unfortunately. The diatoms and cyano just kept on getting buried in the sand through my own inexperience of cleaning it out and it's made half the bed full of old diatoms and debris - it's not nice.

 

[emmett0122]

do you have the money to replaces you sand if do the would be better IMO. people dont agree with me but i vac my sand weekly with every water change and it helps from getting stuff built up in it

 

[chichimom79]

Laz, what do you have in the tank for clean up crew?
You're inhabitants are in danger and at risk already. You've stressed them by getting them out of the tank. If you then take out and brush off all your rock, remove, rinse and put your sand back in, you are going to cause a cycle of who knows how long. I think you're making a huge mistake.

 

[Laz]

Emmett, money isn't exactly a problem, but I rather just wash the sand. I've also always hated the fact that there's such huge particles with it so it's also a good time to siv it and get the nicer finer stuff. I understand it'll all be dead, but as long as it's washed out properly, I don't see a problem.

Chichi, I embarrassingly only have a hermit crab. I didn't add any more because I felt due to my lack of WC's, my nitrates are likely to be high (although it was coming up as 0 on my API but I think it was being disguised). I don't see the stress they've suffered. I think they were suffering more in the tank that they were in due to high nitrates and stagnant saltwater. They are actually a whole lot more active in the fresh saltwater bucket.

Well, I don't plan to add my clowns or my crab until my levels are perfect, even if there is a cycle and it takes a while. At least I'll know that I've done it better than the first time. I'll just have to monitor my levels.

I tried to avoid it all and just do a clean up but the mess was just too far unmaintained to try and attempt a clean up, unfortunately.

 

[d2mini]

How long has your tank been set up? Your sig says just over a month. That true?

Do not remove the sand! Diatoms are a normal part of the cycle and a new tank. It passes. You need a clean up crew to help. Stirring up and removing your sand bed will only prolong your cycle.

Relax, get a clean up crew, and don't buy any more fish until your cycle is complete. You're worried about some snails but you put clownfish in there?

 

[fastrd400]

You should listen to Erin, Chichi, and Dennis. You will be gling backwards if you try to do this. Get yourself a clean up crew, a proper one. Do a 30% water change, then another about a week later. List your equipment as well. I have a feeling you are missing some key ingredients here.

 

[Laz]

No, it's 6 months now, D2.

I know diatoms are normal. The diatoms and cyano I had developed became a ridiculously thick sheet over my sand, which over time did die a little and also got buried into the sand from attempts to take it out. I think pictures would definitely have helped you guys get a better understanding of the situation.

I couldn't add more CUC (such as snails) as they are very hard to get hold of near the places I live at, and being a student, paying excessive amounts for snails wasn't a priority, unfortunately. My cycle came and gone long ago? I'm not a novice to it, the tank was fully cycled but obviously, nitrates are always recurring unless you do water changes, which I did not. Lack of maintenance and no siphoning really made the sand look like it had been picked up from a dirty beach.

Again, the cycle was long complete. I don't even know where I've mentioned that this is a new tank.

---------

@fast

I understand the reprecussions of it, but my tank is a mess. If you look at my thread 'a newbie looking for a way to start' which I started 7 months ago, you'll see some pictures from two weeks ago, and that was quite literally 20% of how it looked now. My tank does not have any corals, and isn't what I would call something that was hugely thriving anyway.

In terms of equipment on the tank?

Heater
Powerheads (2)

And that's pretty much it. It's a 12gal, so no skimmer although I'm looking into purchasing a nano one. It probably would have helped a whole lot the first time, I think.

 

[fastrd400]

I will say this one time, and only one time. Do not pull your sand out to rinse it. You will cause a nitrate and ammonia spike tbat will essentially kill off your tank. Suck out as much of the cyano as you can. Blow your rocks off. Change out 5 gallons of fresh salt water. Add some nassarius snails, they live in your sand. Cut back on feeding to every third day, and cut your light period in half.

 

[chichimom79]

I've given you my advice, and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[d2mini]

Ok here's what I would do. And this is just me, so take it fwiw.

Option 1:
Vacuum the sand bed. Normally I wouldn't do this, but many people do it regularly.
Then follow what fast says about the water changes, cuc, etc.

Option 2:
Like you say, your tank is pretty new, not much in it, etc etc.
So..... start over. Completely. Chalk it up as a learning experience and start fresh.
Rinse the rock, chuck the sand. Bring your livestock to your LFS for trade or see if they or someone else can babysit. Meanwhile get some new live sand, put the rock back in, go through your cycle, get your cuc, do your water changes and in the end you end up with a much more healthy tank, using what you've learned.

If that doesn't appeal to you, stick with option 1.
If you try to pull the sand out and wash it, you might as well do option 2.

And don't be too discouraged. You have to learn somehow, right?

 

[Laz]

Thanks guys, the input is genuinely appreciated.

D2, I'll probably go with number 2. I imagine vacuuming the sand bed kills it off equally as worse as washing it. Another reason I'm more inclined to go with it is the mini-sump that's built-in has also clogged with debris, limiting the flow. I can't siphon or pump it out which I tried, so I may as well start again as it's a losing battle.

Yeah, I suppose so. If I had regularly maintained it, it would have been alright. You live and learn, I guess.

Thanks again all. I'll let you know in the coming weeks/months how it gets on.

 

[fastrd400]

Wait. what? Is this a bio cube?

 

[fastrd400]

And please tell what is in the back of this tank. What you have for lights, and what you use to top off the tank.

 

[d2mini]

D2, I'll probably go with number 2. I imagine vacuuming the sand bed kills it off equally as worse as washing it.

Not necessarily.
Many people love the look of a perfectly white sandbed and will lightly vacuum it during water changes. This won't remove everything like it would if you removed all the sand and washed it. This can be especially helpful early on if you are having problems with excess diatoms or slime algae on top of the sandbed. I'll usually just give it a stir and eventually it goes away as the tank matures but i've only had small patches.

But that's just FYI. If it's as bad as you describe I think you made the right choice in starting over. The last pics in your thread look normal but you said it got a lot worse.

Fast, yes it is a biocube.
https://www.livingreefs.com/complete-newbie-needs-way-start-t45507p23.html

 

[Laz]

fast, I've got half my LR at the back, my heater and my outlet pump. That's it.

D2, yeah, that was pretty much 20% of how it looked. It became diatom heaven and the detritus that built up on the rocks wasn't budging. It looked terrible.

Well, the damage is done anyway. After hours of cleaning I've done this.

Going to go and get some carbon to run on the tank. Question, shall I trigger the cycle via shrimp or will the die off caused through scrubbing and rinsing be adequate enough to start it?