Let me start by saying I think this site is the best on the web for information and suggestions. Also, I am NOT any kind of expert in this field. I started about 18 months ago with a 55 gallon and was given (eat you hearts out) a 65 gallon (complete) about 6 months ago. I set up my 55 using only 2 Marineland Emperor Bio Wheel filters, 2 power heads a heater and good lights. That's all. I slowly added live rock and some Damsels (OK, that was a mistake. Now I can't catch them to get them out and they are aggressive.) and some coral frags. I've since added a few more fish and corals. I wanted to focus on corals so the fish were sort of secondary. I do water changes irregularly with tap water (from our well) about every 6 to 8 weeks and top off with tap water, The tank is doing GREAT. The corals have grown to the point where I may need to "crop" them. The only problem I have had (recently) is some bubble algae developing. I haven't lost any fish or corals and this set up makes me think simpler is better. I'm not saying this will work for everyone but it sure is working for me. It leads me to believe you don't need all the expensive gear to have a nice tank. Now for the 65 gallon. It was given to me with everything, overflow sump pump, skimmer, etc. (even the "moon lights"). I replaced the powerheads which weren't working very well (2) and added a Bio Wheel filter as well. The guy who gave it to me spent thousands on it and even had a maintenance guy service it bi-weekly. Nothing was thriving but a nice tank overall. I've had a problem with Aiptasia (came with the tank) and a bit of hair algae but nothing serious. I'm doing the same "maintenance" on this tank and things are doing a lot better, corals are growing well. I guess my point is that I see little difference between the 55 gallon "cheapo" tank and the 65 gallon. I may just be lucky but after more than a year I think things have pretty much proven themselves out. It seems to me that good water flow, lots of filtration and careful feeding will give you a great tank regardless of the expense. Again, I don't consider myself an expert and I love to read all the forums and advice and have learned a lot from this site. But don't be afraid to experiment a bit and try things out. Technology isn't always the answer. Pictures attached.
Doing it on the cheap
- Thread starter jimbo
- Start date
dcantucson
Reef pro
Your right about the technology. I think of it like human medications. There's a pill for everything!
Your tanks look very nice and healthy.
Your tanks look very nice and healthy.
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
I think that encouraging people to use well water without an RO unit is wrong. I think changing water every "6-8 weeks" is wrong. I think using HOB biowheel filters is wrong.
Myself and other active members of this board spend countless hours explaining to newbies that you need certain pieces of equipment to be successful. We do not make these recommendations out of ignorance or ego. We make them because it has been shown, time and again, that you NEED these pieces of "technology" - ESPECIALLY for a newbie.
After all the time we spend trying to educate newbies on the right way to do it, then you come on here and tell them that we're basically full of :pooh: and it's okay to only do water changes every 6-8 weeks and it's okay to use untreated well water and they don't need any other filtration besides a HOB power filter.
:pissed:
I resent your statements.
Myself and other active members of this board spend countless hours explaining to newbies that you need certain pieces of equipment to be successful. We do not make these recommendations out of ignorance or ego. We make them because it has been shown, time and again, that you NEED these pieces of "technology" - ESPECIALLY for a newbie.
After all the time we spend trying to educate newbies on the right way to do it, then you come on here and tell them that we're basically full of :pooh: and it's okay to only do water changes every 6-8 weeks and it's okay to use untreated well water and they don't need any other filtration besides a HOB power filter.
:pissed:
I resent your statements.
dcantucson
Reef pro
I don't believe that's what he's saying Rc. If he is then I stand corrected.
I think there are a lot of people that can't afford expensive equipment and set-ups. Many are successful without all the bells and whistles and some need them. What works for some doesn't for others and vice versa. I don't think there is only one way to be successful in this hobby. If there was there wouldn't always be so many questions. And this hobby is changing as it has over the past 25+ years. If what he is doing works for him then great for him. I am happy for anyone's success in this hobby and am always looking for ways to become better at it as well. With or without conventional ways or beliefs!
I think there are a lot of people that can't afford expensive equipment and set-ups. Many are successful without all the bells and whistles and some need them. What works for some doesn't for others and vice versa. I don't think there is only one way to be successful in this hobby. If there was there wouldn't always be so many questions. And this hobby is changing as it has over the past 25+ years. If what he is doing works for him then great for him. I am happy for anyone's success in this hobby and am always looking for ways to become better at it as well. With or without conventional ways or beliefs!
Sorry to upset you RC. You're right that I'm a rookie but I've seen many failures when all the right equipment was in place. All I'm trying to say is that there are many roads to success. I certainly do not intend to say the advice given on this site is wrong, quite the contrary I think it's excellent! I also believe the the natural Berlin system has something going for it and has worked for many people.
sen5241b
Reef enthusiast
I was able to get to consistent zero trates with a cheapo skimmer but then I have a large chunk of chaeto and plenty of LR.
ccCapt
Reef Hacker
I'll start by saying your tank looks very nice. All the corals look nice and healthy. Good job!
Now, I think you are looking at your tank and thinking your method will work on any tank. I can assure you, it will not. Using well water might not be an issue at all. You might very well have an excellent water source which is clean enough to use in YOUR reef. YOUR reef consists of corals that live in somewhat deep and somewhat nutrient rich water. I'll also assume you have power compact lights, which work nice in YOUR reef.
Now, try turning your system, without changing any of your maintenence routine, into a high light SPS dominated reef. I'm pretty sure you would have a tank full of white branches in no time.
I've had a reef tank for over 20 yrs and have seen plenty of simple and plenty of complex setups. I'm not suprised you have a successful reef with your setup, but you can't take what you do and expect it to work for any reef. Simply put...it will not.
Now, I think you are looking at your tank and thinking your method will work on any tank. I can assure you, it will not. Using well water might not be an issue at all. You might very well have an excellent water source which is clean enough to use in YOUR reef. YOUR reef consists of corals that live in somewhat deep and somewhat nutrient rich water. I'll also assume you have power compact lights, which work nice in YOUR reef.
Now, try turning your system, without changing any of your maintenence routine, into a high light SPS dominated reef. I'm pretty sure you would have a tank full of white branches in no time.
I've had a reef tank for over 20 yrs and have seen plenty of simple and plenty of complex setups. I'm not suprised you have a successful reef with your setup, but you can't take what you do and expect it to work for any reef. Simply put...it will not.
Absolutely agreed that what I am doing may not work for everyone. And I should clarify that I am NOT RECOMENDING that this is the way to do things. Certainly more frequeant water changes should be better. The only point I'm trying to make, and many may take exception to this as well. is that I do not believe it is essential to have everything and spend thousands of dollars to enjoy this hobby. I believe a simple basic system CAN work and you can always add things later on if you determine they are needed. The basics are always the same. It comes down to water quality. However you achieve that is up to you.
Ted
Living one day at a time
Inmo I think its all a matter of how much time you want to take on tank maintenance. In this hobby what works for some wont work for all. That includes if you spend the farm on equipment. If you test and clean and stay on top of things you can go cheaper. However if you buy all the high dollar stuff and do nothing you will still fail. :D
ggNoRe
Reefing newb
Your tanks look really nice. I find your post to be encouraging to the on the budget reefer, thanks. I do not see your thread as an attempt to blaspheum the use of RO/DI water, skimmers, or water changes but rather just a consideration that simplicity can sometimes work as long as you don't try to take it too far (such as have SPS with PC's :P). The most beautiful tank I have ever seen also has one of the most simple and basic setups that I have ever seen, Tank of the Month - April 2009 - Reefkeeping.com, and is the inspiration of what I will try to make my own tank like.
:Cheers:
:Cheers:
yote
In Memoriam
Welcome aboard Jimbo.
That is a great looking tank.And at times I wish I had went that route with mine.But I didnt,so thats my doings.
I also use tap water in my tank.But I also know whats in the water being as I have a friend that works at the water company.We've actually got the 2nd best water supply in the state.
But like was already stated,I cant recommend straight tap for every tank.
The one thing that really gets me,is the lack of water changes.Every thing in the tank needs fairly clean water (some need prestine water) to thrive.And the only way to get rid of the waste products of the fish and corals are water changes.
I look at em like this,You wouldnt wait until your car had a rod knocking before changing the oil.So why wait until you have a problem with the tank to change the water?
Just my :twocents:
That is a great looking tank.And at times I wish I had went that route with mine.But I didnt,so thats my doings.
I also use tap water in my tank.But I also know whats in the water being as I have a friend that works at the water company.We've actually got the 2nd best water supply in the state.
But like was already stated,I cant recommend straight tap for every tank.
The one thing that really gets me,is the lack of water changes.Every thing in the tank needs fairly clean water (some need prestine water) to thrive.And the only way to get rid of the waste products of the fish and corals are water changes.
I look at em like this,You wouldnt wait until your car had a rod knocking before changing the oil.So why wait until you have a problem with the tank to change the water?
Just my :twocents:
wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
I had posted to another newbie (Tanner) telling him that there have been people in the hobby that's had success with bioballs, canister filters, and even biowheels. I think it's a matter of preference, and if everything is thriving, then good for you.
I, personally, choose to go with the usual setup of a skimmer and fuge, and have had awesome success. I paid $30 for my skimmer (used), and diy'd the sump/fuge and plumbing, so I did save a ton of money that way. The most expensive thing I've purchased was the rodi, and it saves me the hassle of running to the store. We are on city water. This method has worked GREAT for me (then again, my tank's just fowlr, but I'm sure with lighting changes, I could easily change to reef.
So really, I don't think I've spent as much as people would assume w/ a marine tank. It's just a matter of researching, and finding the work around. That's just me, though.
I, personally, choose to go with the usual setup of a skimmer and fuge, and have had awesome success. I paid $30 for my skimmer (used), and diy'd the sump/fuge and plumbing, so I did save a ton of money that way. The most expensive thing I've purchased was the rodi, and it saves me the hassle of running to the store. We are on city water. This method has worked GREAT for me (then again, my tank's just fowlr, but I'm sure with lighting changes, I could easily change to reef.
So really, I don't think I've spent as much as people would assume w/ a marine tank. It's just a matter of researching, and finding the work around. That's just me, though.
sen5241b
Reef enthusiast
I saved a lot of money by collecting and curing my own LR -this has worked out very well.
Re the water changes (or lack thereof ). I really can't explain why I am getting away with doing so few but I do have a rather weak theory. When I do add water to top off I create a "ocean storm" in the tank. I drop the water from about a foot above the tank and try to stir things up. I think perhaps because I have those mechanical filters in place whose draw tubes are 1/2 to 3/4 of the way down into the tank they may pick up any debris better than the overflow box which just skims off the surface. It's just a thought but whatever is going on seems to work. My water tests show a total absence of all the "bad stuff" ie nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, phosphates all measure 0. It's the same in both tanks which is why I question the necessity of all the more expensive equipment. I also had my well water tested and found it to be ideal.
sen5241b
Reef enthusiast
When doing a water change I suggest you scoop up some water and pour it in from high so as to stir up all the detritus and crud in the tank. If you then proceed to take out 40% of the water, you will have taken out 40% of the detritus.I always do this.
AdeptMrSniffles
I have a Blue Thumb
Very interestng thread. In a good way. I think f you can make somethng work, and achieve your goals, then do it. Kudos to you Jimbo.
Nice looking tanks BTW. Hope that bubble algae sees the end soon for you.
Nice looking tanks BTW. Hope that bubble algae sees the end soon for you.
cthegame
Reef enthusiast
You can use equipment like canister, bio balls, etc. and have a successful tank as long as you counter for the lack of proper equipment with physical work like consistent water changes, manual tank cleaning, etc.
Anything is possible as long as the effort is made.
Anything is possible as long as the effort is made.
Rcpilot
Reef enthusiast
oh screw it. edited to remove comments
ltljoker
The Great Tang Herder
wow rc why so hostile? I personally created a thread asking people how many times they do a water change and you would be surprised how many of us arnt doing them on a regular basis.:frustrat: I also use tap water thru a filter and I also have a great looking tank but like they said, what works for some wont work for others.:bowdown:just my :twocents: also
