Adding a shrimp to aid in cycle question

IF free ammonia levels are allow to exist in the tank there will be LR die off and die off of any other beneficial organisms that was brought in with it. Not necessary.

Base rock and damsels and keeping free ammonia levels at zero and the tank will cycle. Confusion comes when the difference between free ammonia and ionic ammonia is not understood. When done properly no harm will come to the fish whatsoever and the same damsels cane be used to cycle multiple tanks.

If using uncured rock toss it on in. The tank will cycle but ammonia levels will get higher than needed.
 
I'm still confused about the whole issue you guys are talking about so I will just let my tank be till it reads all 0. I believe the Dr. Foster site said that my Lalo was uncured. So I think I have about 30 lbs uncured and the 22 lbs of Select Premium Fiji was cured.
 
Levels of ammonia are only needed typically to be looked on as indicators of what is to come. High ammonia indicates impending high nitrates. Therefore leaving high levels of ammonia means typically leaving the potential for unnecessarily high levels of nitrites and nitrates. I do not advocate a level of no ammonia, just low levels of ammonia. Yes the damsels might live to cycle several tanks, as well a human can live through water voidings. But it is not necessary and not humane.

Altohombre I believe your tank is doing fine.
 
Hey what about the life on and in the LR. Why do the fish-less cycle advocates never mention these poor little buggers. How high a life form do you have to be before humanitarian concerns kick in.

Maybe Hillary and Obama will address this in there next debate. The nation needs to know where each stands on this important issue.
 
My chief arguing reason is the preservation of all the life possible that came with your rock and sand. That is why I advocate a soft, slow approach to cycling done with water changes and no organic additions beyond the rock and sand. However I do advocate using already establish bacterial supplements to "sterile" tank set ups, meaning adding a sponge from an active biological system or rock, or sand. I do not believe the bacteria and hitch hikers should be donated to the cause of a quick, hard cycle allowing quick influx of a heavy bio load. If you had read more of this string and oyhers on the same subject, you would know that. I lot at it most often as common since not as a humanitarian iassue. My environmental roots just pop up occasionally, I am not ruled or controlled by them. Nor do I advocate cheap hardy fish being used this way. To put it bluntly, I almost religiously recommend water changes during a cycle not just a water change after the ammonia and nitrites drop to zero. I expect we will hear of the presidential canidate debating less important issues. I personally do not listen to their debates.
 
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updated cycle test results 1/28 (10 days)

pH: 8.0 (same, dosed pH Buffer again after this)
Amm: 0 (down .25)
Nitrite: 1.0 (same)
Nitrate: 80 (it is somewhere between 40 and 80)

Nitrates went up from 5 or 10 to 80 in 2 days. Is this normal? I have heard that it does spike when ammonia goes down. What is strange is that I haven't seen my Nitrite change at all in the last 6 days.
 
Your Nitrite and ammonia will soon drop to Zero. Then you should do a partial water change, check nitrate level, wait a few days and test for nitrate again. I would probably then do even another partial water change. I would not necceasarily shoot for zero nitrate, but would try for at least the teens as a high, but would sure like 0 to 5. Then likely start adding stock to your tank as your nitrate should stay low. It should drop further with each succeeding water change until you obtain a zero or near zero reading. I am a heavy user of water changes in cycling, rock curings and tank start ups in general, even when it is just moving everything from one tank to a new tank. I generally replace through partial water changes the full tanks capacity divided into about 3 or 4 water changes during and at the finish of cycling. Some people however do only one water change following the drop to zero of ammonia and nitrites. I consider salt mix cheap insurance in comparion to losses and constant fighting of ionic inbalances due to new tank establishment differences from what a salt mix was designed for in the way of tap or filtered water.
 
I agree with Fatman. The highest you ever want to see your nitrates get is 20. Fish can handle nitrates much higher than that, but your inverts will be harmed by anything greater than that. Do water changes to get them as low as you can, and then I'd call it good.
 
updated cycle test results 1/30 (12 days)

pH: 8.2 (up .2, dosed pH Buffer again)
Amm: 0 (same)
Nitrite: .25 (down .75)
Nitrate: 80 (same)

looks like in another 2 days my Nitrite should be down to 0 hopefully. Then I will do my water change. Should I dose Reef Buffer again to get my pH up to 8.4 or is it fine? How much do you think I should water change for my 46 gallon? 20% or just go by how much it takes to get it down to under 20 for nitrates?
 
With nitrates that high, I would do a 50% water change, then see where you stand. You might have to do a few water changes to get them low enough to where you can add animals.
 
I would expect the water change to effect your waters parameters to include the pH so would not consider more Reef Buffer until I see the results of a water change. I would look on water changes as if they were the only thing that was going to change your Nitrate level when determining the size of your water changes. Two water changes of 25% will lower the Nitrate level more than one water level than one water change of 50%, and five water changes will lower the Nitrate level more than two water changes of 25%. A Chemistry professor had to prove that to me mathmatically before I would believe that, but I swear it is true. Multiple small extractions works better than one large extraction, or two medium sized extractions. I am assuming you intend to shortly introduce fish into your tank so the bacteria will receive nutrients. Therefore I would change out at least 50% of the water, but do it in multiple changes. Let your new mixed water set overnight with either a pump to circulate it or an air stone and it is best to preheat the water to your tank water temp level before adding it. You only have your rock and sand that would be shocked by rapid changes (Temperature, pH an Specific Gravity) but you should start your good habits early in reefing. For now though I would mix the water to the preferred parameters before adding it to the tank. Later, once you have fish and coral, you will need to mix your new water to your tank parameters. You really want your nitrate to end up as undetectable. With fish that will be difficult to impossible, but it is a good goal. For reading material you might want to read the latest post I made to the articles section. It is a simplified version of how to deal with alkalinity, calcium and pH. I will answer any questions that might arise due to any confusion. I do believe Steve Fenner refers to Buffers as Alkalinity Buffers though and does not refer to pH adjusters as Buffers.
 
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I did my fist water change today using my Python 50' and it went pretty smoothly. I expected more of a suction because it didn't pick up some junk from my rocks that settled on the sand, but it did take out the water fairly fast. I did about 30% water change I would say. Is there anyway for the future that I could use my python to take water out of my Rubbermaid and directly into my tank? The directions only showed how to fill from the faucet. I will check my water paramaters tomorrow to see if the nitrates went down and then most likely do another water change.
 
If the Python is what I believe it is then it is a venturi activated drain hose. What it does is create a negative pressure in the hose by running tap water through the valve from top to bottom creating the negative pressure through a hole in the side of the valve. The inside of the valve would be shaped somewhat like an hour glass with the side tube at the side of the small neck of the hourglass shape. The drain hose would enter into the side of the venturi valve body, which is what hooks up to the faucet on the top and lets out a combination of both tap water and aquarium water from your tank. All that to say, no you cannot use the Python to fill your tank with it if the water is to be pulled from a storage reservoir because you would be getting a mix of tap water and water from your water storage reservoir. A venturi siphon works best with cold water from your tap, IE it would work best in a cold climate and worse in a warm climate with warmer tap water. My tap water, after running a few minutes, is about 34 to 35 degrees in the winter. About a whopping 40 degrees in the summer. Reducing your tubing size for the last couple of feet before the tank will increase the vacuum effect but will limit your particle size it can move through tube. A smaller tube would have more of a tendency to vacuum up your sand/gravel, but that means it will pick up heavier detritus particles. Also it is best for the hose to be no longer than needed to reach your tank and do the work needed. :Cheers:
 
yeah unfortunately I had the problem where 25' was too short and 50' was the next best. I would cut it if this was my permanent house, but its just an apartment and I don't want to waste the tubing if I need all of it to reach somewhere in the future.
 
I got a Rio pump with about 5ft of vinyl tubing to transfer the water from the can to the tank during water changes.Just drop the pump in,stick the end of the hose in the tank and plug it up.Quick,simple,and easy.
 
It is a small tank and should only require around a 5 gallon water change (every two to four weeks depending on fish load) once the tank is established so all you really need is a way to fill a 5 gallon bucket and, like Yote wrote, a way to get the water from the bucket into the tank. Larger systems really are no different, it is just that a pumps hose (or PVC pipe) will run from your mixing container to your tank, rather than your using a carry-able 5 gallon bucket for a mixing container.
 
ok well my Nitrites finally hit 0 today. Yesterday I did about a 25-30% water change (first time) hopefully to lower my nitrates. I also cleaned my Eheim canister filter thinking that may add to the nitrates. However, both barely made a difference. I am still at the 40-80 range on my API test reading. Any followup suggestions?
 
Thats bunchs of nitrate. Lots of ammonia usually ends up meaning lots of nitrate. The only way in a short period of time to lower that high a nitrate is through water changes. Your sand and live rock would take a long time breaking converting that much nitrate. I would go 4 or 5 days between water changes of about 25%, or even 10% every 2 days. All your really doing is diluting the nitrate concentration in tank water. You need to get it below 20 for fish and below 5 to 10 for soft corals, and at 5 or below for large polyp corals and you should be able to keep them at or below those levels. To introduce SPS you really should wait until you can keep your nitrates at zero for months on end, but most people jump the gun for fish and all the different corals. Lots of experts recommend a tank be established for 6 months before introducing SPS corals, but GARF introduces everything quickly by using a lot of fresh live sand and rock, plus starting all new tanks with water taken from mature tanks.
 

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