Back after deciding against trying a nano

[Samhain]

You also have to remember that you're going to be limited to 6 fish or so in a 55 gallon, especially for the first year. So if you go with a school of 3 chromis in addition to your clowns and angel, you are at max capacity. Not telling you not to get them, just letting you know that that would be it for the fish.

 

[Brian041]

You also have to remember that you're going to be limited to 6 fish or so in a 55 gallon, especially for the first year. So if you go with a school of 3 chromis in addition to your clowns and angel, you are at max capacity. Not telling you not to get them, just letting you know that that would be it for the fish.

No no, thanks for the advice. I wasn't sure what kind of cut off I should assume since I know saltwater stocking is much more restricted than freshwater. 6 sounds good. Are you saying a few years down the road I might be able to add one or two more? if not that's ok. I'd be content with just 5 or 6 either way.

 

[Cathic]

A lot of it has to do with the bioload and total water volume as well. Keep in mind some fish need lots of room for swimming, others just need a space to call their own since they are territorial. Things like this limit the amount of fish we can keep in a tank. Size (at full grown not at purchase) also matters, some fish we buy small and they grow to be 3 or 4 inches (if not bigger) and this will add a significant amount to your bioload down the road, not to mention cause issues with crowding. You may be able to house more (or less!) depending on the size of the fish you wish to get. You could house 9-11 blue green chromis in a 55 (this is just an example) which is clearly more than 6 at max, but their combined effect would equal 4 or 5 larger specimens. I would say comfortably that 6 would be your limit as Sam pointed out, but when you start fishing around (ha!) for what you want and you get a stock list post it up and we will definitely tell you what we think about it and adjustments you might consider.

-Cathic

 

[Brian041]

A lot of it has to do with the bioload and total water volume as well. Keep in mind some fish need lots of room for swimming, others just need a space to call their own since they are territorial. Things like this limit the amount of fish we can keep in a tank. Size (at full grown not at purchase) also matters, some fish we buy small and they grow to be 3 or 4 inches (if not bigger) and this will add a significant amount to your bioload down the road, not to mention cause issues with crowding. You may be able to house more (or less!) depending on the size of the fish you wish to get. You could house 9-11 blue green chromis in a 55 (this is just an example) which is clearly more than 6 at max, but their combined effect would equal 4 or 5 larger specimens. I would say comfortably that 6 would be your limit as Sam pointed out, but when you start fishing around (ha!) for what you want and you get a stock list post it up and we will definitely tell you what we think about it and adjustments you might consider.

-Cathic

Thanks for the info, that's why I try to stock based on their adult growth and not current. Plus i find it easier to figure out adult size than take a ruler with me to the fish store lol.

I'm thinking
1 Flame Angel
2 Ocellaris Clowns
3 Orange Lined Chromis
And maybe a Saddle Puffer but I'm not set in stone with that one.

I'd love to put a coral beauty angel in too, but I've seen that mixing angels is a bad idea. Green Mandarin and Red Mandarin Dragonets look great too and would fit, but it says they are supposed to be difficult to keep. Have any of you had experience keeping them?

 

[Samhain]

Are you saying a few years down the road I might be able to add one or two more? if not that's ok. I'd be content with just 5 or 6 either way.

Like Cathic said, it really depends on what you have. After a year for the tank to mature, you could consider going up to 8 fish or even more, depending on your choices. For instance, if the majority of your choices are tiny, peaceful fish like the tail spot blenny, clown goby, midget chromis, etc., then you could even push it up to 9 or 10 fish. Those are all very small, maturing at around 1-2 inches. But if you went larger or more territorial, like clowns, wrasses, basslets, or angels, you would have to keep it down to 7-8 fish after the first year.

+1 to Cathic, we will help you with your stock list as you decide and finalize. For the first year, the clowns, angel, and chromis would be about it.

 

[Samhain]

I'm thinking
1 Flame Angel
2 Ocellaris Clowns
3 Orange Lined Chromis
And maybe a Saddle Puffer but I'm not set in stone with that one.

I'd love to put a coral beauty angel in too, but I've seen that mixing angels is a bad idea. Green Mandarin and Red Mandarin Dragonets look great too and would fit, but it says they are supposed to be difficult to keep. Have any of you had experience keeping them?

That sounds like a great stock list! And you're right, mixing dwarf angels is a BAAAAAD idea in a small systems. The answer might be different in a 200+ gallon system, especially if they were added at the same time, but in a 55 it will be virtually impossible.

And Mandarins are difficult only if you get one not eating frozen. The reason they are difficult is because they are hard to get eating frozen, and they will go through the pod population in a smaller tank within a matter of days. Even a well-populated, mature refugium will be hard-pressed to supply a mandarin with enough food to survive in a smaller tank unless it's eating frozen. Lots of forum members here have or have had mandarins in their tanks. You can search for mandarin threads in the archives here to get lots of great info on them!

 

[Brian041]

That sounds like a great stock list! And you're right, mixing dwarf angels is a BAAAAAD idea in a small systems. The answer might be different in a 200+ gallon system, especially if they were added at the same time, but in a 55 it will be virtually impossible.

And Mandarins are difficult only if you get one not eating frozen. The reason they are difficult is because they are hard to get eating frozen, and they will go through the pod population in a smaller tank within a matter of days. Even a well-populated, mature refugium will be hard-pressed to supply a mandarin with enough food to survive in a smaller tank unless it's eating frozen. Lots of forum members here have or have had mandarins in their tanks. You can search for mandarin threads in the archives here to get lots of great info on them!

Great info! Ok, first question, I keep hearing the term pod, what does that mean or what is it? By frozen food do you mean like the frozen cubes of brine shrimp I buy at the pet stores? I feed the Hikari Brine Shrimp to my freshwater fish.

 

[Samhain]

Great info! Ok, first question, I keep hearing the term pod, what does that mean or what is it? By frozen food do you mean like the frozen cubes of brine shrimp I buy at the pet stores? I feed the Hikari Brine Shrimp to my freshwater fish.

Copepods and amphipods, my friend! They look like little fleas, and they are a nutritious and delicious source of food for many of our fish friends.

And yes, sort of like brine shrimp, although we highly discourage brine shrimp around here, as it has the nutritional profile of cotton candy. Most folks recommend good mixed foods like emerald entree, marine cuisine, rod's food,formula one or formula two. Much more nutritious, plus it provides variety. After all, no one wants to eat the same thing for every meal, right? :D

 

[Brian041]

Copepods and amphipods, my friend! They look like little fleas, and they are a nutritious and delicious source of food for many of our fish friends.

And yes, sort of like brine shrimp, although we highly discourage brine shrimp around here, as it has the nutritional profile of cotton candy. Most folks recommend good mixed foods like emerald entree, marine cuisine, rod's food,formula one or formula two. Much more nutritious, plus it provides variety. After all, no one wants to eat the same thing for every meal, right? :D

Very true. I know when I feed my freshwaters I like to get a variety. Are any of those products available at petsmarts or petcos? or will I need to go to a saltwater specialty store or online? Either is fine, I'm just trying to wrap my head around feeding marine fish.

As for pods I did some research on how people tackle these problems and it seems like pod piles and pod condos are the way to go. My only question is how to stock them. Do you just take a turkey baster or something and inject them inside the pile and let them go to town?

 

[cvcdrk]

I feed my Scooter Dragonet (same family as Mandarins) frozen mysis and frozen bloodworms with a couple drops of cyclopeeze...all of which I get at Petco.

For pod piles you just build a little tack of small rocks and seed the tank with pods. You would need some pretty big pod piles, though to keep a Mandarin who doesn't eat frozen in a 55. I doubt it's possible.
This is a solution people have come to for keeping pod populations up, but it probably isn't able to sustain a population with true pod eating fish.

 

[Brian041]

I feed my Scooter Dragonet (same family as Mandarins) frozen mysis and frozen bloodworms with a couple drops of cyclopeeze...all of which I get at Petco.

For pod piles you just build a little tack of small rocks and seed the tank with pods. You would need some pretty big pod piles, though to keep a Mandarin who doesn't eat frozen in a 55. I doubt it's possible.
This is a solution people have come to for keeping pod populations up, but it probably isn't able to sustain a population with true pod eating fish.

I'm thinking maybe making a separate tank to cultivate pods would work well.

Another question. I know angels eat marine algae, I've seen it sometimes advertised as seaweed. Is this what I want? can anyone recommend a brand?

 

[little_fish]

Cultering pods isnt that easy, i would just find one that is eating frozen. These days it really isnt that hard, just wait until the right fish comes along.

And yes, marine algae is seaweed. I dont know that any brand is better than any other, but i do know that some fish wont eat a particular type due to personal preference. So if your fish doesnt seem to take to it, try and other type. The dried seaweed can be found in green, red and brown.

 

[Brian041]

Cultering pods isnt that easy, i would just find one that is eating frozen. These days it really isnt that hard, just wait until the right fish comes along.

And yes, marine algae is seaweed. I dont know that any brand is better than any other, but i do know that some fish wont eat a particular type due to personal preference. So if your fish doesnt seem to take to it, try and other type. The dried seaweed can be found in green, red and brown.

Sounds good. I'll pick some up tomorrow when I get off work. As for the cultivating pods I'll keep researching. Cause I really want a green mandarin, but I want to make sure I can keep him happy and healthy for a long time

 

[Samhain]

I know emerald entree and marine cuisine are available at petsmart. The rest are mostly found at fish specialty stores or non-chain pet stores.

And refugiums, pod condos, etc., are ok for sustaining a pod population in most tanks, but if you throw a mandarin in there, all bets are off. They will decimate a heavy pod population in a matter of days, and then starve unless they are eating frozen as well.

 

[SarahSmile]

Yeah, I have tried some various types of algae sheets with my flame angel and he ignored them. So I picked up emerald entree to get him his veggies. All fish are different :)

 

[Brian041]

Alright. So I can get the angel the right food today while I'm at work. I think as far as the tank goes I'll go with the flame angel, 2 clowns, and 3 orange line chromis. I'll add the dragonet later once I find one that accepts frozen food and the tank has been up and has had time to settle in.

 

[little_fish]

I think that is a great plan! But i would add them in the order of clowns, chromis and then angel.

 

[Brian041]

I think that is a great plan! But i would add them in the order of clowns, chromis and then angel.

I remember reading angels should always go in last.
But I am curious, why the clowns before the chromis? If what I've read holds true, the chromis are more peaceful than the clowns and stocking order *usually* goes peaceful to aggressive.

 

[little_fish]

Well, this a personal experience thing, but I found that my chromis instantly schooled with my clowns and the clowns were the top dogs of the little school, which prevented the chromis from taking out their anger issues on the other chromis which is why my school was successful when many other tend to have the chormis slowly pick each other off.

 

[Brian041]

Well, this a personal experience thing, but I found that my chromis instantly schooled with my clowns and the clowns were the top dogs of the little school, which prevented the chromis from taking out their anger issues on the other chromis which is why my school was successful when many other tend to have the chormis slowly pick each other off.

Sound like good logic to me. I'll remember that when I get to stocking the tank. Gotta find a truck first to get the tank to my place lol. My little car won't fit a large aquarium in it.