Deep sand in canister

F

Frogman

Reefing newb
After years of just fish only salt, I'm switching to soft corals in a 70 gallon tank. The tank isn't drilled so a sump will be tough. I would like to continue to use the Fluval 403 that has been flawless for 17 years.

The filter has 3 compartments. I am thinking of taking out two compartments and filling the bottom of the filter with 6 inches of aragonite sand, and then some lava rock and set the last compartment on top of the lava rock. In order to keep the height correct, I may have to modify the compartments rather than remove them, but the point would be to have no flow through the sand, flow around the lava rock and then go through some filter floss and a sponge in one compartment.

Any comments on this idea. It should do better than the standard setup of making nitrates that I have now shouldn't it?
 
The sand may get washed out into the main display. Canisters can collect too much detritus when used with marine systems. I thing canisters could work though if you took the extra time to keep them clean.
 
Of course it collects detritus, its a filter. but if I have a non flow sand base, detritus won't collect there. It won't collect in large chunks of lava rock. Sand won't get out of the filter through filter floss and a sponge. More sand will get sucked into the filter than gets out. I figure on monthly changing the floss.

I know canisters aren't the best option, but a sump is out and I'm trying to make the best of what I have to work with. If anyone has played around with canisters, I'd like to hear from you.
 
I would not put sand in it, you risk it releasing built up nitrates and causing more issues. live rock would work better in it (instead of lava) Will this be your only filtration for the aquarium or will you be adding a skimmer to it as well?

It wouldn't hurt to use one of the compartments for phosphate media to help reduce your phosphates that will definatley build up with just a canister. You will also be doing more maintenance with it, water changes etc. The more live rock you use inside your aquarium the better off you will be, until you can upgrade your filter.
 
Why would you say releasing nitrates is a problem? The sand bed will convert nitrates to nitrogen. The only thing I would worry about would be sulfides but what would disturb the canister? It's a lot less prone to releases than deep sand in the display tank. I also think the canister will end up being a refugium for copepods. When I clean the filter, I'll only have to change the very top compartment so everything below should stay undisturbed.

I have a skimmer though I'm not happy with it. I'm planning on getting a Tunze nano 9002 to put inside the display tank to replace the Visijet.

I did just buy a nice 25 pound live rock cured for 6 months and plan to get more. Right now I'm just seeing how much light I can use without hair algae taking over.
I have 25 red leg hermits, 3 turbos, an emerald crab, a maroon clown and a damsel in the tank. I also have some green mushrooms.

To be honest, I was on the verge of getting out of salt altogether because I can't do the sump and hair algae has been my bane, but I thought I would give it one last chance. I'm using RO water for make up, 5 gallons weekly, I have a strong clean up crew and an otherwise light load. If I build up the live rock, get the canister so its not pushing up my nitrates so bad and the phosphate remover is a good suggestion, then perhaps I can get things under control. If I can leave the light on for 8 to 10 hours a day and not lose the hair algae battle, then I will add a few shrimp and more soft corrals and be happy.

The maroon clown and damsel are hold overs from the fish only days. I've had them about 5 years.
 
I would increase your water changes to about 10 gallons a week. I have a 30 gallon and do a 4 gallon a week water change. The more water change, the lower the nitrates.

The little bit of sand in the cannister would probably not be enough to do anything. And since there is no light in the canister, it cant be used as a fuge.

Have you looked into getting a HOB fuge? I hear they are nice and since they are on the back of the tank, the tank doesnt need to be drilled.

Brian
 
I'm an inch from the back wall, no HOB option. I barely have room for the tubes going to the canister. I thought about throwing some light on the filter, but don't think its worth it, at least not with the filter I have. If you had a really big capacity canister with clear sides I don't know why it wouldn't work though. The canister wouldn't really be a fuge, but it would be home to lots of copepods even without light.

Anyway, part of the post is to get people thinking about improving canister design for use in salt tanks. I know everyone loves the sump, but I bet it takes a lot more make up water from evaporation than what I have to mess with. Canisters are designed to treat ammonia and nitrites. They could be designed to treat nitrates if people gave it more thought.
 
Frogman I think the only way your going to know is to probably try it. I too have thought of this before but have never tried it. I do believe if it is a feasible method that it would be marketed as such and it would have been common knowledge. My guess is for whatever the reason, it will not work. You however may be successful as what works for one often doesn't for someone else. I have wondered about canister filters a lot and do not fully understand how they become so bad for our systems as many say. Good luck with your idea.

Also, I have seen some new types of sumps which are in a tower form and have a very small footprint. Would something like that work for you?
 
Canister filters can work for our systems, it what they require to maintain a stable healthy system. I hate maintenance, so more water changes and cleaning out a canister filter just doesnt work for most people. and it will never remove your nitrates from your system.

Pods will deffinatley be inside the canister, but you still need to remove waste from it. So putting sand inside will only collect waste, at some point you will need to clean it out. same with live rock being used inside the canister.

Similar set up on my 12 gallon nano. in the back compartment I have a sponge that is my first line of defense it collects big waste. The middle and end compartment I have filled with live rock (which I have to remove and vacuum out detritus about every 3 months) the sponges I clean monthly. I do a 1 gallon water change every other week. I do grow pods inside these area's. If I was to put sand in there it would just build up with waste and cause bigger issues in the future. I only have 3 fish in this system and feed everyother day, so I keep waste to a minimum.
 
Well, I put the sand in the canister, drilled out some holes in the bottom of the center compartment, and for the moment am leaving it empty. I have some floss and half a sponge in the top compartment.

The sand doesn't move at all, there is no flow through the sand. I can't see how I'll get anything more that a layer of detritus on the top, I'll have to monitor that. Optimizing the level of the sand would probably minimize that. I don't see that the sand would ever have to be deep cleaned any more than it would in a sump.

I need to figure out what to put in the center compartment. If I can get some cured live rock in small pieces cheap I suppose that would be best, but I can always use live rock in the display tank.

dcantucson, the footprint isn't the problem. The tank isn't drilled, and I don't see how replacing the existing tank with a drilled one is going to happen anytime soon.
 
If your tank not being drilled is the problem, have you considered an overflow box? They don't take up a lot of space, and that would allow you to add a sump.
 
My understanding of DSB is that the natural CUC will churn the sand all it needs to be turned, and that if theres not enough flow then the lower layers will go completely anarobic, and will then start producing nitrogen bubbles, that are supposed to be released slowly by the snails and things that move the sand around, if you move it yourself, then you risk dumping all that nitrogen gas into the water, and causing problems...

oh, and it might not be pretty, but what if instead of off the back, could you hang a overflow off one side or end of the tank?

or you could allways cut a "cubby" into the sheetrock behind the tank to make room for the overflow box.. just an idea...
 
Changing the floss only 'once a month' isn't going to work. Just becuase floss collects detritus doesn't mean its out of the system. Detritus will collect in the floss and break down into nitrates. I replace floss every 3 days or so.
 
years and years and years ago, when i was first thinking about getting into a salt tank, but didnt have the money(like now) i read about a guy that would take 4 inch pvc, chuck it up in his lathe, and turn these long long strands of white pvc "FLOSS" and that was what he would use in his filters, didnt cost him much of anything except time(he was a plumber so he got the scraps for free)

he was turning out pounds and pounds of the stuff each evening...

Just a thought...
 

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