DIY Protein Skimmer

[hachadwick]

Hello,
I am very new to the hobby, about 3 weeks in. I have a 50 gallon saltwater tank with live rock right now. I am in the nitrogen cycle right now, so I wanted to go ahead and build my protein skimmer. I have a question though. I have built a counter current skimmer that is 4” diameter and water containing portion reduces to 2” at the top around 4’ foot high. This then enlarges back to 4” for the collection cup and all. I have attached a picture of the design I did in PowerPoint. The question is this:
What solutions are they for fulfilling the role of pump1 and pump2? My ideas are these:

1. 
   Buy two pumps – one sucking and one blowing and balance the flow with a valve. With this I don’t know of a economic pump to use.
2. Buy one bump that blow and sucks from the aquarium. I can’t find one of these either.

This system will be under the aquarium so a I need to get the water out of the tank and down to the skimmer then from the skimmer back to the tank at the same rate.
My last question for a expert is this:
What happens if one of the pumps fail? The tank with either overflow of the protein skimmer will over flow.
Any ideas on this problem?
Thank you for your expert advice ahead of time.

 

[chichimom79]

Your skimmer should have only one pump and will need to be in/next your sump or you can use a hang on the back skimmer if you don't use a sump. Either way only one pump, and I haven't heard of anyone using a skimmer below the tank unless they had a sump. Coordinating two pumps is nearly impossible.

 

[Bifferwine]

Chichimom is right -- you will not be able to coordinate two pumps to flow at the exact same rate all the time. If you use two pumps, you will have a flood. In order to use the skimmer, you will have to use gravity to bring water down to it. With an undrilled tank, this can be accomplished using an overflow box. You need to have a sump, and the skimmer will go in the sump. I've never seen that type of skimmer being used standing alone like that, and I don't think it can be done. It has to go in a sump or hang on the back of the tank.

An alternative is what is called a recirculating skimmer, which uses a pump to draw water into the skimmer, then uses pressure to bring it back to the tank, but as far as I know, recirculating skimmers still have to be on the same level as the tank (so are used in coordination with a sump) because there isn't enough pressure to move the water upwards to the tank. Recirculating skimmers stand on their own (I use one on my 90 gallon tank), but the kind you have is not a recirculating skimmer.

 

[hachadwick]

Wow, I love this forum:) Thanks for the information. I will study how to build a sump system and follow y'alls input. I take it the water will need to be pumped from the sump to the tank right? If so, what is the difference between pumping from the skimmer to the tank and pumping it from the sump to the tank? Thanks again for the help.
Time to go read some more! :)

 

[chichimom79]

Gravity takes water from your display to your sump, and your pump sends it back up to the display tank.

 

[hachadwick]

After reading a ton of articles and project descriptions this is what I am looking at doing. I am sure there is something I am missing so please chime in a let me know:)

The water will flow from the main tank to the skimmer via a siphon system. This will flow down the skimmer against the current of the rising bubbles. The wate at the bottom of the skimmer will just flow out of the skimmer into a collection container on the same level as the skimmer (under the main tank). This is where I had to think a lot about this. The design I came up with is as follows. The collection container will have a enough water in it to submerge the water pump which will return the water to the main tank. This will be maintained through the floating cut-off switch which will disable the pump if the water level changes, killing power to the pump and causing the siphon to stop.

Do you think regulating the level of water in the sump container will regulate the water level in skimmer as well? I mean, if the water if flowing correctly, the pump will return water to the siphon. If the water is leaving the skimmer to slowly, the pump will shut off and wait for more water to leave the skimmer.

So, what do you all think? I am making this way more complicated than it needs to be, I am sure:) Either way, it's fun.

 

[Ulta]

I think your thinking about it wrong, having it overflow into the skimmer. I'm quite sure that would affect its operation and ability to skim.

You should think about it overflowing into the sump. Then you have a pump for the skimmer in the sump that circulates the water through the skimmer and will discharge back into the sump. If that makes any sense. And yes, the water level in the sump in that instance will affect the skimmers effectiveness. (That is why most people have skimmers in their sump, and why sumps are designed the way they are.) or you can have the skimmer outside the sump, but would still pull water from and return water to the sump.

Also, note that when designing your sump, the level of the baffles will depict the water level in that portion of your sump.

 

[Ulta]

Here is a pic of my sump (pretty typical in sump skimmer) for reference and to give you a visualizer to what I am talking about :)

 

[hachadwick]

Thanks for the picture. If I understand your idea correctly, it will look something like this?

 

[Kully3xf]

DIY 6" Needle Wheel Skimmer

 

[Kully3xf]

Although, I think that unless you have experience doing this, you may wind up making some mistakes that can turn out to be costly. It may be cheaper to just buy one

 

[hachadwick]

I am skilled enough with working with water that I can perform the task. What I need is the best task to perform:)
I like website you linked to. how would this design fit into a full system with sump and main tank?

 

[Kully3xf]

That skimmer would go in a sump, just like a normal one i guess. it would be about 1/4 - 13 submerged. something like that. He has pictures of that skimmer in his sump. You could set it up likek that

 

[Bifferwine]

As I've said, your skimmer won't work with the water directly going into it, and with it standing alone. Like Ulta said, the pump needs to draw water from the sump to the skimmer, then back to the sump. In your design, you said that a siphon (gravity) will draw the water down into the skimmer. That water won't be moving fast enough to mix with the air in the skimmer and produce skimmate. This is why skimmers are designed the way they are. I don't think your design will work unless you put the skimmer in the sump or have it drawing water from the sump as it was intended to do.

 

[hachadwick]

I am sorry. i don't mean to sound like I am arguing or something. I will indeed listen to what you all are saying because I know you are expeienced and I am not:)

The reason I want to do a DIY project is because I enjoy it. I don't want to just go out and buy a skimmer and sump and just plug it in. I want to build it, study it, and understand it.

The advice I am recieving from this forum is the only reason i am moving foward because it's been great.

After reading all your messges to me I am going to follow these steps:

• I am getting a 15 gallon sump container.
• I will then setup a overflow type siphon that will lead into the sump ONLY, like you instructed.
• The sump will have a return flow using a water pump that will go into the main tank. Before adding the skimmer, I will make sure this is working correctly.
• Right next to the sump I will have my protein skimmer that will filter the water that is in the sump.
• Water will leave the sump container and enter the top of the skimmer using a pump placed in the sump container.
• The pressure created by the force of the water entering the top of the container will force water out of the bottom port on the skimmer back into the sump container. this flow will be against the flow of the bubbles which of course will be traveling up.

I really hope I am understanding fully. I want to learn from you all so please don't think I'm being hard headed:frustrat:
Thank you all for the help you provide.

 

[kevdogg]

I hate to do this to you but check this site out;

Protein skimmer, ozone, skimmer, venturi, in-sump, hang-on, Euro, stand-alone. downdraft, needle-wheel, protein

The pics may provide a little more inspiration and insight into skimmer design!

 

[hachadwick]

Those are some nice skimmers. I looked at several of the pictures and they inspired a question:

How much distance is needed between the water line and the point where the foam over flows into the collection cup? Does this vary by deisgn and must be calibrated maybe? Thanks

 

[kevdogg]

It does vary and does need to be adjusted by design. Some skimmers have a air flow adjustment. All have a water flow adjustment regulated by a valve on the output of the skimmer. My skimmer is rated at 450gph but I had to slow it down to approx 300 gph in order not to overflow the cup. Then the fine tuning was done by a valve on the output line and the air valve. The better skimmers don't have a air regulator at all. Check youtube to see different skimmers in action to guess how high to set the water line before the air is added into the mix.

The best advice that I could give would be to add a line that attaches the air pump to the collection pump. This will keep the cup from over flowing by cutting off the air if the cup gets to full!!! I had to modify my skimmer this way.

 

[hachadwick]

Sweet. That is going to fun. I hop attaching these screen shots is not bothering people. They help me understand the concept though. Let me know if this idea is what you are saying:

 

[chichimom79]

The water should travel up the tube of your skimmer. Good luck on your project. You are braver than I ;)