First tank, have I bitten off too much?

[Namor]

Hi, I am just starting to actually get into the salt hobby, but I've read about it for years. I actually have a couple of questions, but I will just let you know where I am at the moment.
I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with pine stand, tank is drilled for one drain line, 1 return, the drain line has an acrylic box in place around it.

I have an outer orbit lighting system HQI/T5 fixture Aquarium Lighting - Light Fixtures - Metal Halide & HQI Light Fixtures - 36 Inch Outer Orbit HQI/T5 Fixture : Aquariumpros.com

an AquaC urchinpro protien skimmer (rated for tanks up to 100 gallons)

an Allglass Megaflow (model 2 rated for tanks up to 75 gallons) undertank wet/dry filter with a Blueline external pump rated for 480 gph.

and I have a Corralin calcium reactor (rated for tanks up to 400 gallons)

My plan is too keep tridacnid clams, lps and sps corals, along with an anenome and some soft corals in an indo pacific reef setup.

I plan on using between 50 to 80 lbs of liverock (probably Fiji) and a 1 1/2 to 2 inch bed of live sand.

I also have a 12 gallon Nano Cube DX for use as my quarantine tank, (with plans to upgrade to metal halide lighting for my clams and corals while quarantined).

Here are my questions (or some of them at least).

1. Am I being too ambitious for my first saltwater tank? I've tried to be well read on the subject (Aside from what I've checked out from the library, I own and have read the following: Reef Aquariums by Tullock, Saltwater Aquarium Models by Tullock, Marine Invertebrates by Shimek, Mini Reef Aquariums by Kurtz, The New Marine Aquarium by Paletta, The Reef Aquarium Vol 1-3 by Delbeek and Sprung, as well as having a subscriptions to Freshwater and Marine Aquariums, Tropical Fish Hobbyist, and Aquarium Fish International for the last 2 years). (note, I also understand some inverts are easier to keep than others, I plan on staying away from difficult corals, and going with easier sps and lps species).

2. I want the classic anenome and clownfish thing to happen in my tank, I have heard that bubble tip are the best for that, but that condylactis are hardier and that clownfish will go to them if there are no other anenomes, what is your experience with this? I'm worried that anenomes are difficult to care for and I would rather not kill such a beautiful creature, and want one to thrive.

3. Is the metal halide upgrade for my quarantine tank necessary for the 3-4 week quarantine period? I want to take good care of my corals and clams, but the cost seems high for a short period of quarantine.

4. I plan on keeping a light fish load, but I know that some of the inverts I want to keep (notably the clams) don't always do as well in a lightly stocked tank, with my filtration, I have heard that the best rule of thumb is 1" of fish for every 2 gallons of water, is this still considered accurate?

5. Is it better to stock all corals and inverts first, and then add fish?

6. I plan on placing my anenome before my corals, and letting it find where it wants to settle, and then placing corals, is this a good idea?


Well, I guess that is enough questions for now, thanks for any and all responses, and I look forward to being a part of this community.

 

[reeffreak]

First off...Welcome to Living Reefs!

1)Looks like you have done alot of research.I recommend ''The Conscientious Marine Aquarist'' by Robert Fenner.Check the ''helpful articles'' at the top of the page for more information in this great hobby of ours.

2)I have no experience with anemones.Its a hit and miss when it comes to clownfish hosting.Personally,I had no problems with clowns(Maroons,Clarkii)hosting corals such as mushrooms and brains.Others will probably chime in with there experience with anemones.

3)I only QT fish...maybe I should QT corals too but I don't.Regular lights should be find for a short period of time.Make sure to acclimate them to the lighting from the DT.

4)Every system is different,fish/gal rule doesn't work well.Filtration,skimmer,live rock all plays into how much you can keep.

5)After a cycle is complete...most add inverts(snails,hermits etc.)first,then fish,and finally corals.(Remember not all inverts,corals,fish don't do well until your system matures-6mos.+)

6)Hopefully someone will chime in with their experience with anemones.I always found them to difficult to keep alive long term.People here say BTA are fairly hardy...well as far as anemones goes at least.

Equipment wise,sounds like your set.Some really nice equipment actually
Best of Luck

 

[Doc]

2. I want the classic anenome and clownfish thing to happen in my tank, I have heard that bubble tip are the best for that, but that condylactis are hardier and that clownfish will go to them if there are no other anenomes, what is your experience with this? I'm worried that anenomes are difficult to care for and I would rather not kill such a beautiful creature, and want one to thrive.

Clowns don't generally host in condis. They are more like a weed than anything else. When you compare them to a rose tip, BTA or long tenticle, it is like comparing a dandelion to a field of orchids. Go with a bubble tip - they are hardy and do well once your tank has some time under its belt. Wait about 4 months before adding it. There is no guarantee your clown will host even if you get a BTA, but there is a good chance.

3. Is the metal halide upgrade for my quarantine tank necessary for the 3-4 week quarantine period? I want to take good care of my corals and clams, but the cost seems high for a short period of quarantine.

You do not need to QT corals. If you are concerned about infection from a coral, you can QT them, but you do not need any special lighting. Corals can live a week without any light in your sump and come back just fine a day later. Don't waste the money.

4. I plan on keeping a light fish load, but I know that some of the inverts I want to keep (notably the clams) don't always do as well in a lightly stocked tank, with my filtration, I have heard that the best rule of thumb is 1" of fish for every 2 gallons of water, is this still considered accurate?

2 gal to 1 inch creates too great a bioload. A good starting rule of thumb for the first year is 5 gal to 1 inch. After your tank has matured (about a year) and you have sufficient filtration, you can increase the load, slowly to about 3.5 gal to 1 inch, but that is pushing it. Never more fish than that. I stay around 4 gal to 1 inch. You will find your tank will make its own balance and if you push the stocking limit, your fish will just start dying. Rather than push that limit, just go with 5 to 1 for the first year.

Corals actually need fish to truly be healthy. fishless environments do not give the corals what they naturally get on the reef from fish. symbiotic relationships are great to watch like that.

5. Is it better to stock all corals and inverts first, and then add fish?

Corals need more consistent water conditions and high quality to thrive. adding fish first really helps to balance out your tank. Add your cleaning crew first, then add a hardy fish, just one, and wait a month. If water tests out ok and the fish lives, go ahead and put in another fish per week til you are at the 5:1 ratio and don't forget to add cleaner shrimp - they help keep things clean and do eat parasites that can kill your fish, even Ich. After you are done adding fish, put in your hardiest corals. make a plan as to where you want them first and list the ones you want to keep. After you have your corals in place, 2-3 a week, add your BTA and whola...you are done.....til you get bored and tear the stupid thing down and do it all over again because you decide you want different fish....blah, blah, blah. We have all been there....lol!

6. I plan on placing my anenome before my corals, and letting it find where it wants to settle, and then placing corals, is this a good idea?

No, refer to previous section.

Best of luck to you.

-Dr Marco :sfish:

 

[Bifferwine]

All good advice so far...

It sounds like you bought good equipment and did a lot of research, so no, I'd say you're not being too ambitious, but in fact you will probably have a much greater chance of success with your first tank than most people do, who don't read up before they set the tank up.

I agree with the Doc, that 1" of fish for 2 gallons is WAY too many fish. Every tank is different, and you can only add as many fish as your tank can handle. Add a fish or two every month or so until you are happy with what you have in your tank. If your water parameters spike or you start having a hard time keeping the water quality good, you know that you have surpassed the carrying capacity of your tank. The best rule for stocking is to take it slow and be patient. It can take a while for the bacteria in your tank to catch up with the added bioload of new fish.

I would add at least a few fish first before adding corals and inverts. You can add the cleaner crew and first fish at the same time, but I'd have a few fish in there for a couple months before adding corals to make sure your water parameters keep steady.

Stick with the bubble tip anemone. And I would wait AT LEAST four months before adding it. Maybe even eight months. They are difficult to keep alive, especially in new tanks. And about them moving around, they seem to move no matter what. And will sting any corals they run into. Usually anemones are not a good addition to a reef tank if you have a lot of corals, because coral deaths at the tentacles of the anemone seem to be inevitable. In a lightly stocked tank, there is less danger of that.

Like Freak and Doc have said, you don't need to quarantine corals. You should dip them in an iodine solution or coral dip before adding them to your display tank if you are worried about pests or parasites coming in on them.

 

[LionFish]

Nothing to add!

Welcome to the site and please feel free to post pictures of your progress
We like the pictures around here.

 

[yote]

Reef,Doc,and Biffs got you covered with some great advice.
Just remember that with your tank and the lights you plan to run,you'll need to acclimate your corals to your light.You also might want to think about hanging the light 8 to 10 inches above the water surface.

 

[Namor]

Thanks for all the info, most of my books give details about what is hardy and whats not, but many don't give good directions on in what order to place inverts or fish. So based on what you've told me I should really do the following

1. If I want a bubble tip, I should seriously consider a light stocking load for corals, to prevent die off due to tentacle damage

2. Plan on waiting at least 4 months after fish in order to add corals properly

3. The light for the nano cube seems to not be necessary

4. I think I will plan on 1" of fish for every 5 gallons (my current plans are 2 false percula, 1 firefin goby, 1 mandarin (I know difficult to keep alive and needs to be in an aged established tank). This may be what I stay with and that's all.

Okay, another question, and feel free to be blunt about it

1. Should a beginner try to keep anenomes? I would like one, but I don't want to inadvertantly kill corals and maybe the anenome itself by lack of experience, also, is the addition of one to the tank worth the risk of having one (in your oppinion of course).

 

[Doc]

You got it nailed with the ideas you posted. I am glad to see you are so passionate about the craft. As for anemones, I have four in two different tanks. When people tell you it is hard to keep, it is not that you have to do anything special - don't need to hand feed (like sun polyps), no current requirements, doesn't need suntan lotion, etc. What it takes are high water quality and good lighting. The problem is that people tend to put them in too soon (I wait 6 months and have never lost a BTA) or don't have good lighting. A sign of an unhappy BTA is that it will not stop moving in your tank - searching for a decent spot that it never finds. It will eventually die. Once they find a spot, they tend just to stay put. Mine haven't moved for months. The only time it did was when it split and the other parts wandered around the tank for three days and wound up sitting right next to the original spot - kinda funny.

I think it is worth it to watch my clowns live in the BTA - especially at night when they both curl up in their respective BTA sleeping bags and the anemone literally swallows them up. Once they have established themselves, you can replace your corals around them to make sure there is enough room to prevent stinging. Hope this helps

-Dr Marco :sfish:

 

[d.french]

welcome to living reef looks like everyone done added everything and you starting off with good equipment my only advise is to take it slow don't add to much to quick so your bio load don't go nuts and crash, and don't use tons of additives water changes replenish all needed trace elements, and you already got a calc reactor for calcium which you will need to keep lps, sps corals.

 

[Namor]

Thanks for the clarifications Dr. Marco, I don't plan on going too fast, I've been saving up for 3 years to get this set up, I don't plan on rushing now :D. Thanks for your input everyone, really do appreciate it. I had planned on my first fish being one of the Ocellaris, I've heard that they are hardy, is that a good choice?

 

[Doc]

yup. Those clowns can live in a toliet for a while and be no worse for wear. Good luck to you

-Dr Marco :sfish:

 

[Namor]

Great, a couple of last questions before I begin creating my cnidarian masterpiece.

I've been sold on the idea of using live sand, but the only sources that I can find are at Petco sitting on a shelf in a plastic bag, that's probably been there the better part of a year. I plan on ordering most of my livestock from Liveaquaria.com or BlueZoo. But I didn't notice either of them offering live sand, where can I get a reliable product? (planning on using argonite)

 

[Bifferwine]

You don't need to use all live sand. Just use mostly regular dried out aragonite and go to a fish store near you and ask for a few handfuls of sand from their established tank. You can seed your sand with just a little bit of live sand and it won't take that long for the microbes to spread throughout the tank.

 

[Doc]

Biff is right. You only need to add live sand once your tank has been established and you need to replace what you have sucked up through water changes. At the start, Just add dry sand before you add your water and let the cycle do the rest. I didn't even add handfuls of live sand, although the ideas makes sense, that could be why it took my tank 6 weeks to cycle. Too bad I didn't know about this site when I started.

-Dr Marco :sfish:

 

[reeffreak]

When I set up a new system,I always went the 80% dry aragonite sand and 20% live sand.IMO,using some live sand helps speed up the cycling process with establish bacteria.Check the expiration date on the bags of live sand.They only have a certain shelf life.BTW,I like the Caribsea live sand.

 

[yote]

That questions been nailed good.
You really have no way of knowing that your getting what you paid for when you buy live sand.But even a little bit of bacteria will help get you started.

 

[reeffreak]

The 2 Doc's sell the pre-package sand.I am going part or maybe even all live sand since its not much more expensive than the regular dry stuff.Here,the dry runs $25 for 15-20lb bags.At the 2Doc's its $35 for 40lbs of Caribsea direct live sand.BTW,they only charge regular shipping and not the crazy shipping other sites charge for over-weight items....200lbs. for only $17.00 shipping.

Marine Substrates: Ocean Direct Caribbean Live Sand at Drs. Foster & Smith

 

[Namor]

Thanks for the link reeffreak, I am now getting ready to do the plumbing and set up for my live rock. How long should I wait to get a good idea about how hot my tank is gonna be, I am worried that with the small tank size and the metal halides that I may need a chiller. But with no previous experience it's hard to make that call. I am also thinking of adding a UV Sterlizer. Any comments on either of those? Thanks for your input.

 

[Doc]

yes UV steralizer and with a 40 gallon you will most likely need a chiller. Set up your tank without anything but the rock and turn on the lights and wait about three days to really get the sense of the true temp

-Dr Marco :sfish:

 

[yote]

You can also set up a small clip on fan to blow across the water surface to reduce the temp.Just clip it to the side of the tank and plug in a timer so the fan comes on with the halides.