SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Or reduce the flow.
Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!
- Thread starter SantaMonica
- Start date
ltkenbo
Reefing newb
I didn't rub the algae on there when I started it up, but I am on day 4 and there is brown growth I don't need to start over or anything do I? Also is it necessary to have dark period? And if so why?
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
You don't need to rub.
Yes needs 6 hours dark.
More info:
Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ (August 2010)
Yes needs 6 hours dark.
More info:
Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ (August 2010)
vonjankmon
Reefing newb
I've been running an algae scrubber for a bit over two months now and I'm still getting the brown gunky algae. 12 inches across and about 12 down, but it goes a bit longer to the water line to reduce splashing but there isn't a light for farther down. I have two lights on one side and one on the other. Protein skimmer prevents another on the other side. I clean it weekly and I have pics of before cleaning and after along with a picture of the lights in the front because I have two different color spectrum bulbs. The bulbs themselves are the 23W CFL's. The flow is probably somewhere around 400ish, I have it built into my over flow and some flows past the tube into a drain on the other side so my pump is going at around 600GPH so figure I may lose 200 or so on the drain.
Not sure why I'm not getting green algae, there's plenty of it in the DT itself. Any ideas? Thinking I may try one of the solid carbon reactor solutions if this thing doesn't shape up. Oh and DT is 90 gallons, about 15 in the sump and then a separate refug of 20. Feed the tank about a cube and half of food a day. Seahorses go through a cube give or take and the rest of the fish make up the other half.
Not sure why I'm not getting green algae, there's plenty of it in the DT itself. Any ideas? Thinking I may try one of the solid carbon reactor solutions if this thing doesn't shape up. Oh and DT is 90 gallons, about 15 in the sump and then a separate refug of 20. Feed the tank about a cube and half of food a day. Seahorses go through a cube give or take and the rest of the fish make up the other half.
Piratefish
SPS Freak
Ive been running mine for 2 months as well. It looks about the same but I have NO algae in the DT. I think you need more flow. My scrubber is much smaller and Santa Monica reccomends 800gph on mine. Does it smell? If it does you need more flow. Why are you running the skimmer? I am using the scrubber as my only filter and my water has been perfect, with no water changes.
Also I am now feeding 3 cubes a day in my 55g.
Also I am now feeding 3 cubes a day in my 55g.
PRC
Stop Quoting Me!
+1 Piratefish...You may need more flow or stronger lights, or the lights may need to be closer to the screen, no more than 4" away form the scrubber.
Zissou
What about my dynamite?
I bought an SMR1 reactor and warner biopellets, but after reading a few threads regarding massive algae outbreaks using this method, I've decided not too hook it up. They're just collecting dust on the shelf until I decide what to do with them. Seems that anyone who owns the pellets for more than a few months gets an outbreak.
I can't find anything negative on algae scrubbers. Not getting the right algae on the screen always seems to be a flow or light problem, but once solved, they work. I thought the solid carbon dosing was going to be a miracle pill too, but it appears not to be.
So I'm building an algae scrubber. There's just too many good things being said from 'long term' users to ignore their effectiveness.
vonjankmon
Reefing newb
Lights are within 4 inches, back light is right at 4, front two lights are half an inch and about 1.5 inches away. The picture has the lights pulled back a bit so I could get a picture of the scrubber itself, they're normally touching the PVC frame. I increased the flow tonight, all 600GPH running through it now and I forgot to mention in the first post that I used doubled up plastic mesh and it was very well roughed up.
And I am going to keep using my protein skimmer, frankly without it I would more than likely have a tank of dead things right now given what it pulls out that the scrubber is not yet getting. And since there is still algae in my DT there isn't any shortage of food for the scrubber.
And it shouldn't need more light, on the front I have double what the recommended amount of 23W's is. I'll give it another 2 months with full flow and any other suggestions are welcome. I've heard good things about algae scrubbers here and really want it to work.
And I am going to keep using my protein skimmer, frankly without it I would more than likely have a tank of dead things right now given what it pulls out that the scrubber is not yet getting. And since there is still algae in my DT there isn't any shortage of food for the scrubber.
And it shouldn't need more light, on the front I have double what the recommended amount of 23W's is. I'll give it another 2 months with full flow and any other suggestions are welcome. I've heard good things about algae scrubbers here and really want it to work.
Piratefish
SPS Freak
Sometimes when using a double screen the algae between will die off and get washed back into the DT. Have you tried posting on the algae forum? I dont know how often SantaMonica posts here.
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Your scrubber is pulling nutrients out of the water, but as long as you have display algae (that is slowly dying, putting nutrients back into the water), your nutrients in the water will stay high, which will cause darker scrubber growth. Once the display algae is almost gone, nutrients in the water will no longer be replenished and thus will drop, and then scrubber growth will be green.
But it does not matter what color the scrubber growth is; it grows what it needs to grow in order to absorb nutrients. What do you think the algae in the scrubber is made of? Nutrients. More info:
Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ (August 2010)
My understanding is that the solids work just like vodka: produce bacteria which eat nitrate and phosphate. Problems is, you have to remove the bacteria with a skimmer, which also removes all your food. And, the bacteria use oxygen, reduces pH, and irritate some corals.
Scrubbers remove nitrate and phosphate too, but add oxygen and pH, and supply the water with the same things that algae supply in the ocean: vitamins (like C), and amino acids. Remember that the entire ocean is fed, and filtered, by algae. Algae is 90 percent of all life (besides bacteria) in the ocean. There are no nutrients in the ocean because the algae eats them all. But algae only live in the top 300 feet of water (where the sun gets to); if you go down below 300 feet, nutrients jump up to very high levels. I bet you didn't know that.
This is completely wrong. The skimmer is pulling out food, which your seahorses and coral (if any) could eat. The skimmer does not pull out any nitrate or phosphate at all, zero, none. If you have corals, removing the skimmer would give them more food too. And would allow you more room for another bulb.
Nevertheless, your scrubber is indeed working, But displays with a lot of algae take a few months to get cleaned out if you are using a normal DIY scrubber.
The opposite. If you have lots of display algae, you have one scrubber working against another. I.e., all the nutrients are locked up in the display algae. Your display scrubber has the advantage of endless surface area; so you make your DIY scrubber stronger with higher flow, rougher screen, and (even if temporarily) stronger lights.
After I let my display over grow with algae, it took my 2 acrylic scrubbers a few months to get everyting down to coralline. Now it's easy.. I can feed anything, and N and P never go up.
One thing: Don't put herbivores in the display; if they eat and cause more nutrients to go back into the water, the scrubber will growth darker, and that won't help. What will help is removing the skimmer and adding a bulb.
This is very true, and one reason I don't recommend double layers for beginners anymore. Double layers are only more effective with very strong lights, and frequent cleanings.
vonjankmon
Reefing newb
I REALLY want to disagree with this statement. As neither my seahorses, Red Spot Cardinel Fish, firefish, or Gobies are capable of eating the microscopic food particles that the skimmer pulls out. And as of right now I have almost no coral in the tank. I believe it is also an Exceedingly bad idea to put forward the idea that everyone can run skimmerless. It is entirely possible with or without an algae scrubber, but it is generally something only experience aquarists can get away with in the long term. The scrubber is built into my return flow so it has first crack at the nutrients, the skimmer pulls out anything it misses.
SantaMonica
Reefing newb
Skimmers pull out much larger food than microscopic. Full size copepods, amphipods, rotifers, and broken pieces of algae, all go to the skimmer.
Yes, every tank can be skimmerless, if there is enough algae in the system. There is no skimmer in the ocean, after all, just algae. If all you had was a skimmer, everything would die in a few days. If all you had was (enough) algae, everything would be just as it is in the ocean. This is in addition to the fact that thousand of folks are currently running algae-only, with no water changes (water changes only remove food, and add metals). Experience has nothing to do with longevity; having a large amount of algae in the system, does. And, there is no possible way for a scrubber to hurt any livestock.
No no no... they do not pull out the same things, at all. Not even a little. They do the exact opposite. You have to understand this in order to see why the skimmer is only hurting. Skimmers pul out ORGANICS... i.e., protein, which is why it's a protein skimmer. Scrubbers do not touch organics. At all. Not even a little. Scrubbers pull out INORGANICS. Organics are like a steak on the grill that you want to eat. Inorganics are the smoke. Skimmers remove the steak; scrubbers leave the steak, and remove the smoke.
Yes, every tank can be skimmerless, if there is enough algae in the system. There is no skimmer in the ocean, after all, just algae. If all you had was a skimmer, everything would die in a few days. If all you had was (enough) algae, everything would be just as it is in the ocean. This is in addition to the fact that thousand of folks are currently running algae-only, with no water changes (water changes only remove food, and add metals). Experience has nothing to do with longevity; having a large amount of algae in the system, does. And, there is no possible way for a scrubber to hurt any livestock.
No no no... they do not pull out the same things, at all. Not even a little. They do the exact opposite. You have to understand this in order to see why the skimmer is only hurting. Skimmers pul out ORGANICS... i.e., protein, which is why it's a protein skimmer. Scrubbers do not touch organics. At all. Not even a little. Scrubbers pull out INORGANICS. Organics are like a steak on the grill that you want to eat. Inorganics are the smoke. Skimmers remove the steak; scrubbers leave the steak, and remove the smoke.
vonjankmon
Reefing newb
Fish tanks are a close system (at least mostly, energy from the lighting adds energy). Food you add either comes out some how in the end or stays in the tank. It can come out via Carbon, a protein skimmer, or an algae scrubber but it has to come out eventually. Sure at different points in the foods existence different things can pull it out, whether when it is more complete a protein skimmer or after it has been broken down a bit and is in the form of nutrients an algae scrubber.
You contradict yourself in your post. If the skimmer and scrubber are pulling out different things why is the skimmer hurting the scrubber
You contradict yourself in your post. If the skimmer and scrubber are pulling out different things why is the skimmer hurting the scrubber
PRC
Stop Quoting Me!
Von..what SantaMonica is telling you is accurate. You don't need a skimmer if you have a scrubber. I use a scrubber on a 180g tank, that I upgraded from a 90g tank. Neither ever had a skimmer. I ran across this thread when I was initially cycling my tank, I set it up according to specs, I've never had 1 piece of algae in my tank. I, like everybody get the usual dusting on the glass that gets brushed off. But I've never had algae, and I've never had nitrates above 5ppm. I feed alot because I've got big fish with big appetites. I also have very little clean up crew.
I don't know the specifics on how it works...but it works.. Here's a video of my tank...the only algae that you'll see is on the side wall where I don't scrape because it's hard to reach because my tank is in the wall. It's difficult to reach..
I panicked when I first set mine up because I didn't thin it was working. I just left it, it started to work and has kept my tank very stable. Just tweek it a little and give it time. It doesn't tank control of the system overnight, but once it does it keeps it very stable....on top of that it only takes about 5minutes to clean once per week.
I'm so naive when it comes to algae issues that when I read a thread about hair algae, I automatically assume that somebody is just neglecting there tank terribly because I've never had to deal with it.
Check out my tank...no algae anywhere except on the bottom of the sidewall because I have to stand on a ladder to reach it.
YouTube - FishMovie!
Hope this helps.
I don't know the specifics on how it works...but it works.. Here's a video of my tank...the only algae that you'll see is on the side wall where I don't scrape because it's hard to reach because my tank is in the wall. It's difficult to reach..
I panicked when I first set mine up because I didn't thin it was working. I just left it, it started to work and has kept my tank very stable. Just tweek it a little and give it time. It doesn't tank control of the system overnight, but once it does it keeps it very stable....on top of that it only takes about 5minutes to clean once per week.
I'm so naive when it comes to algae issues that when I read a thread about hair algae, I automatically assume that somebody is just neglecting there tank terribly because I've never had to deal with it.
Check out my tank...no algae anywhere except on the bottom of the sidewall because I have to stand on a ladder to reach it.
YouTube - FishMovie!
Hope this helps.
vonjankmon
Reefing newb
Oh I think it will work, I wouldn't have tried it if I didn't. And I totally think you can run a tank without a skimmer, I did it for a while without an algae scrubber on my old 55G. I just left macro algae grow all over, many people with seahorses have tanks like that.
Having said that I think taking every precaution you can in our hobby leads to people being in the hobby for a long time and leads to significantly less fish loss, which is good for the hobby. And I don't think there's anything wrong with having a protein skimmer as an extra level of protection.
Like I said I upped the flow and I am thinking about getting a bigger bulb for the back of the scrubber since it only have one on it but the next step up is like a 60W, which is huge but the light is like right at 4 inches away from the scrubber so that probably won't matter.
Having said that I think taking every precaution you can in our hobby leads to people being in the hobby for a long time and leads to significantly less fish loss, which is good for the hobby. And I don't think there's anything wrong with having a protein skimmer as an extra level of protection.
Like I said I upped the flow and I am thinking about getting a bigger bulb for the back of the scrubber since it only have one on it but the next step up is like a 60W, which is huge but the light is like right at 4 inches away from the scrubber so that probably won't matter.
PRC
Stop Quoting Me!
I know the lights are important. Mine took some tweeking too. You'll get it. In fact as I recall, with my tank...when I initially set it up the algae wasn't green either, in my case I actually had to reduce the flow a bit..
Hiker4twenty
Reef enthusiast
That's a cool video and an awesome tank. I'm at work and it locked up on me and I couldn't finish it. Does it show your scrubber setup at all? Also, what kind of trigger is that?
PRC
Stop Quoting Me!
No my scrubber is in my backroom...It's a blue-throat trigger. very friendly, and considered reef safe.:D
Hiker4twenty
Reef enthusiast
I thought it was a blue throat, but wasn't 100% sure. Have you had any issues with it not being reef safe?
PRC
Stop Quoting Me!
No he's a great fish. Very friendly..doesn't mess with anythign, corals, inverts, nothing..He actually gets picked on now and again by my sailfin tang..he'll put up with it to a point, when he's had enough...he'll just turn around really quick and the entire tank will hide! It's funny..
When I'm working around the tank, I'll just reach down and touch him with the coral grabber. He just stays right there. He has no fear of anything.
He's kinda like one of those big dudes who are real quiet and just hangs out minding his own business, but you know if you make him too mad he's going to kill you.:mrgreen:
