My First Tank (60L)

TBrewerton

TBrewerton

Reefing newb
Hey guys,

Thought I should start a thread in here to track my progress as well as get tips advice as I go.

For background on how I started please visit my Introduce Yourself thread

This is my Tank as of today 17th June 2012

photo_110931.jpg


I am 2 days into cycling the tank using the table prawn method which was removed from the tank this morning. The tank is showing huge levels of Ammonium which is a great sign, so now the waiting game for these to subside.

Currently researching what I will put in my tank once the cycling is finished. From what Ive read snails are a great start for my CUC, Im also pretty keen on a fire shrimp but have seen differing info on when to add shrimp. Last thing I read was saying to wait about 3 months?

Also keen to put in some corals. From what the LFS told me the tank is running a single H/O T5 Is there anyway to tell what the specs of the bulb is by looking at it? I just don't really trust much she has told me after doing my own research. Also would that bulb if indeed it is that be ok for supporting some corals?

The tank Dimensions are approx. 60cm across 20 deep at the sides (curves out at front) and around 40cm high (Sorry for the metric measurements)

I have about 9KG of Live rock and around 12KG of coral sand in the tank.

Its running a 75W Heater and the filter that came with tank - good picture of it in my Intro post.

Ultimate goal would have been a BTA and a pair of Clowns with some shrimp etc But after doing more research it sounds like a BTA may be a bit risky in a tank this small - so maybe instead I might do a duncan coral or something?

Also could anyone give me any advice on roughly how many fish I would be able to put in this tank. Ive heard the inch of fish per 7G or something along that lines rule but really don't understand how to work that out.

Another type of fish my wife is very very keen on is, i think its called a dottyback? It was a small half blue half yellow fish - very gorgeous. Would this tank be too small for one of those and a clown?

Anyways enough excitement for one night haha, I will keep you all posted on how the cycling is going :-)

Tim
 
The tank is about 15 gals, and you are limited to one fish for every 10 gals. I think you could do two clowns in there, but the tank is too small for the dottyback and the clowns are going to need to be moved to a larger tank after a few years. However, almost everyone upgrades or quits so I think you will be fine :)

I would add snails as you see algae problems begin to develop, and adding a variety of different snails is best. I would add the shrimps once the tank settles a bit, so maybe a few weeks after adding your first fish.

I would skip the nem, plus there is no guarantee that will host your clowns anyways. And there are lots of much cooler and safer corals out there IMO. However, you will have to upgrade your lights to keep anything, one bulb wont let you keep anything corals wise.
 
Thanks little_fish,

Tested my Ammonium levels again today - they are dropping, probably half what it was yesterday.

With the type of tank it is It would be very very hard to upgrade the lighting without butchering the whole top off the tank. Im pretty annoyed at my LFS for the advice they gave because I specifically asked for a set up that could handle corals, anemone and clowns. But hey the blame isn't all theres as I jumped into this without any research (impulse buy) in saying that though without jumping into it I wouldn't have found out all that I have now so its good and bad.

We have already discussed the idea of upgrading hahaha

Just out of interest will the clowns do alright in there without any corals/anemones? I thought I read somewhere ages ago that they get stressed and die without one?

If they will be ok would I be best to add them both at the same time? Or delay between each - I think the new LFS i found has a heap of baby ones in stock at the moment.

Again thanks little_fish for you patience and great content replies!
 
The clowns will be OK without a nem or corals, if you add two clowns you would want to add them at the same time, but just make sure your cycle is completed before adding them. A clown will host whatever it wants (not necessarily a nem) my clowns (different tanks) host a rock and the upper corner of the tank.
 
+1 MikeG

If you do add the clowns at different times, make sure they are of a very different size so avoid a major battle between them over dominance.

Also, I am assuming this is your first fish purchase so here are the basics for purchasing fish.
1. Make sure it has bright eyes and is behaving normally (moving around, reacting to stimulus)
2. Make sure its eating. Dont buy a fish that isnt eating, means they arent feeling good and moving them to a new tank wont help a thing. If a store refuses to feed them (they will eat even if they were just fed minutes ago) something is up with that store and I wouldnt purchase anything from them. A healthy fish will always eat if offered food.
 
Thanks guys! Appreciate the advice!

Update on Cycle.

Ammonium between 0 - .5

This is a great sign considering two days ago it was almost off the chart, which brings me to nitrite haha

Tested Nitrite tonight and it went red straight away - no need to wait this time round haha

I guess this is a good sign my cycle is under way - Ammonium has been converted to Nitrite, now for the nitrate conversion :-)

I was reading somewhere the other day about Nano tanks - Im guessing my tank could be put into that class? What the author was saying was that live rock converts nitrate into bubbles of (nitrogen?) which then float out of the water... I had noticed huge bubbles forming around my rocks and bubbling off - I had just figured it was a collection of tiny bubbles from the filter collecting on them. He went on to say that cartridge filters can be very bad in such a small tank because they effectively hold onto huge amounts of ammonium creating material unless cleaned frequently - and that it was better to go without the filter and use the live rock to do the job naturally. He was saying that there was no need for any form of filter besides the live rock as long as you had at least 1 pound of live rock per gallon.

Is any of this true - If its the case could i be better to remove the base cartridge from my filter unit and just use the top part for creating flow?

I have about 19 pounds I think I worked out of live rock to my 15-16 Gallon tank.

On another note tonight when i got home I spotted another critter in my tank.

Its a long (very very very fine) white string? with beads? all the way up it, at first I thought it was just a bit of debris then it retracted very very fast into the rock. I then spotted another one which looked like it was "licking" my rock hahaha

Any Ideas??

Cheers everyone!!

Love this place - can't wait till in a few years time when I can return the favor by helping someone else who is in my position now!

Love ya all!

Tim
 
You don't need the HOB (Hang on Back) filter, your live rock will be your bio filter. But you can use the HOB filter with rubble live rock and carbon (to polish water) if you like. I (and others) do this on our smaller tanks. Filter floss or pads will trap debris and turn that into nitrates is not cleaned regularly so it's best not to use them in saltwater tanks.
 
TBrewerton said:
Ahh I found a picture after a lot of searching - its DIGITATE HYDROIDS - Apparently pretty nasty stuff! :-(
Click to expand...

So after lots of reading, it seems there isn't much info out there on these guys. Since little_fish has already said I won't be able to have coral is it even worth worrying about them?

Will they attack fish or inverts? I mean it would be frustrating to have to start over but now would be the time to while there is still no fish.

When people say to get rid of them you boil the rock in RODI is that literally what it means? Just chuck the rock in a big pot of water and boil it away to kill everything off?

They do look rather cool tho haha so if I don't need to get rid of them due to not having corals then I may just leave them.
 
Basically, take them out of the tank and let them completely dry out. Then rinse them off with water. IMO. That is how I have always done it. you basically kill everything on the rock. I think some people have put it in the oven :P HAHA

Try to never have pests. So do this now while you are at the beginning of your tank.
 
Ok so I did some reading up about cooking live rock, Its basically the process of keeping live rock in complete blackout and rinsing loads for around 2 months (keeping the temp and salt at the correct lvls during this time) It will use a ton of salt cause of the amount of water/rinsing but gets rid of all nutrients within the rock whilst keeping it alive. They say it makes the rock like new.

Im wondering if I should do this... Its really disappointing to think about due to the amount of time and possibly money it will take to complete, but both lots of live rock I got from the 2 different shops have issues. One grew copious amounts of algae right away and the other shops stuff is now covered with these "pests".

Considering the above I think it is prob wise to do this to all my rock and then start from there. This will put me back a few months but will potentially (If what the articles say are right) give my tank the best start if can have.

:-( I just want my fish hahahaha

I think I am quickly learning how difficult this hobby is going to be - but if I can get through this and still be enjoying it then I think it is something that will be very rewarding!

Thanks guys.
 
+1 Jmck

Especially if you are upgrading, because you will want to use the live rock you have instead of buying more.


However, back to your earlier posts.

The bacteria living on your live rocks converts ammonia to nitrite and then nitrite to nitrate. The bacteria required to convert nitrate to nitrogen gas must live in an oxygen free zone. Some people try and create this zone by making a deep sand bed, however it can take months to never for those bacteria to colonize that area and you will end up getting pockets of hydrogen sulfide gas and other nasties forming that when disturbed will crash your tank. Thankfully, their are more reliable and easier ways to remove nitrates 1. water changes, 2. macro algae. The algae use it as a fertilize and grow, consuming the nitrates, improving your water quality. Sadly, ugly algae also uses nitrates as a food source, so when you have algae problems a nitrate and/or phosphate (another plant food) is almost always the cause.

The bubbles you are seeing are either from your filter splashing or from O2 gas released by growing algae. One of the first signs you are about to experience an outbreak of algae is bubbles forming on the rocks.

this is true of every tank, regardless of size.

Canister filters are an issue because they trap large particles in the water column, but because the water still passes through the filter the particles rot down into nitrates, phosphates and other dissolved organics which are then washed right back out in the water column. A protein skimmer is a much better investment because it totally remove the particles from the water column. This is also an issue no matter what size tank you have, but in a smaller tank you really dont need the skimmer. As long as you have enough rock and do regular water changes, you will just fine.

You can continue to use it for flow, but powerheads are a bit cleaner and more a bit more water.
 
Probably shouldn't buy from them anymore.

Why don't you just start the rock over? For $50 you can get like 25lbs of dry rock from marcorocks....then just buy a couple good pieces of live rock from him too and seed it.

It will take less time, FAR less effort and will allow you to control what is in the tank.
 
TBrewerton said:
Ok so I did some reading up about cooking live rock, Its basically the process of keeping live rock in complete blackout and rinsing loads for around 2 months (keeping the temp and salt at the correct lvls during this time) It will use a ton of salt cause of the amount of water/rinsing but gets rid of all nutrients within the rock whilst keeping it alive. They say it makes the rock like new.

Im wondering if I should do this... Its really disappointing to think about due to the amount of time and possibly money it will take to complete, but both lots of live rock I got from the 2 different shops have issues. One grew copious amounts of algae right away and the other shops stuff is now covered with these "pests".

Considering the above I think it is prob wise to do this to all my rock and then start from there. This will put me back a few months but will potentially (If what the articles say are right) give my tank the best start if can have.

:-( I just want my fish hahahaha

I think I am quickly learning how difficult this hobby is going to be - but if I can get through this and still be enjoying it then I think it is something that will be very rewarding!

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...


I wouldnt trust that method for a second, you are dealing with a pest that doesnt need light or hardly any food to survive. I personally would get rid of the rock its on and just get dry rock to fill in the rest. Its very cheap compared to live rock, my favorite place to buy it is: MarcoRocks Aquarium Products
 
Sorry Little_fish for the confusion, that process is for clearing out all the build up of nutrients and stuff in the rock. I will take jmck's advice to kill off the pest. Sadly to get it shipped to NZ will be too costly. At this stage these are the only two suppliers I have found near me. I think I will Pull the rock and dry it out completely to kill everything off it then do a decent cycle of rinsing/cleaning on it as mentioned above to rid the rock off anything else in it. And start the tank over.

The reason I believe the rock has a build up in it is because my tank was showing Phosphates and my LFS told me it was from tap water so I went and brought a RO/DI unit and started over. Then when i got my test kit I tested the RO/DI water for Phosphates and it read 0 I then tested my tap water and got the same result! So the phosphates are coming from the rock they sold me. Hence wanting to try cleanse it. I try find the article again to link you too it.
 
Here we go.

Link

Let me know what you guys think..


Now on to cooking LR. This process does not kill LR, rather it recharges as if it were brand new by cleaning the detritus out of it that has accumlated over the years. This is done by putting the LR in a dark environment which leads to a bacterial driven environment instead of an algae driven environment which the LR is normally in. This forces the bacteria to clean out the LR as it is their only source of food. You will be amazed at how much detritus can accumulate in LR over the years, clogging it and chocking it.

This process involves time(between 2 and 3 months), a powerhead, heater,buckets and salt for fresh water changes. You take the LR out of your tank and putting in an environment where no light is present at all. You must use new saltwater, as the object is to take away the food source so the bacteria can only use the nutrients stored in LR.

-Make new water
-fill up a couple of buckets and another container to store the LR in darkness between cleanings.
-In the first bucket take a piece of LR and dunk, dip, swish, and blast with a powerhead to assist in releasing detritus.
-Then take the same piece and dunk in next bucket to do the same process to release more detrius.
-you will need a few buckets as it becomes quite evident once you begin how much crap is in your LR
-after you have dunked, dipped, swished, and blasted all the LR with powerheads, put the LR in a large container with a powerhead, heater, and a lid(slighty cracked to allow gas exchange), but the point is to keep it in darkness to starve the algae.
-repeat process ever week
eventually the amount of detritus coming out the LR will not be as much.

After a few months of this process, the LR will once again be free of nutrients and of course it will still be alive. I'm not suggesting everyone go out and cook your LR, but if your LR is relatively old, and you are having problems with algae while your readings are showing 0, most likely your LR is saturated with nutrients. I'm doing half of my LR at a time and once I complete the other half I'm taking the sand bed out and going BB with a RDSB.
Click to expand...
 
To be honest, I don't believe that will kill all the bad bacteria. you are basically just storing it and not feeding the bacteria with light or macronutrients.

Best option is to kill everything on the rock completely. Get one good clean live rock and seed the old rock you killed off.
 
I dont really think that method will work all that well personally, i would just put together a nice fuge and let that take care of the nitrates and phosphates. However you are more than welcome to try it :) Do let us know how it works out if you do!

Also, there are no phosphate kits on the market you and I could afford to purchase that I would trust
 

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