Newbie here - LOTS of Questions

[daugherty]

your cycle is just beginning the ammonia Will be the first to rise then as that is falling the nitrites are rising then when that starts falling the nitrates will start to rise when ammonia and nitrites are 0 then do a water change that will help to get the nitrates down some and add a fish but only add one or two small ones. wait a month before adding any other fish. you can also add snails and crabs at that time also since they do not count toward your bio load. don't add any shrimp for awhile since your tank is still young. hope this helps a little

 

[Becki67]

That definitely helps. My Bfriend wants to add the "cleaners" . When should we do that? Also, clams.

Is there any place that might show a chart of the timing of when to add the different types of livestock?

 

[reeffreak]

Wait about a month after the cycle to add a shrimp.They are a bit more sensitive to fluctuation in new systems.

 

[Bifferwine]

I'd wait at least a month before adding shrimp, starfish or clams. Make sure you have appropriate lighting for clams. Other inverts like snails and crabs will be fine to add when your tank is done cycling, with Daugherty covered.

 

[RyanG]

Becki first step in this hobby is research, you need to tell your BF to do some and put yourself in charge of the tank until he does. Good job to you for realizing that fact befor him

 

[fatman]

When or what you add is nearly always most dependent on how well you monitor your water parameters, and on whether or not you are willing to do water changes. There are some corals and invertebrates that are very sensitive to nitrates and therefore need a mature biological system in a tank. That can take up wards of a year or more to fully establish and usually is never established in a tank system without a deep sand bed or a huge amount of live rock. A fully mature biological system is a system that doesn't spike ammonia, nitrites or nitrates after a sudden large bio-load is added, such as spilling a half container of flake food into tank and not being able to get it all out, or having to put all the fish and coral in one tank after another tank crashes. Some people work hard at keeping sensitive invertebrates and corals alive through a strict water change regimen,and stick with minimal live rock and no deep sand beds, and have good enough luck to keep the delicates. I however, go with heavy rock, deep sand beds, and lots of water changes, but still avoid the sensitive invertebrates such as anemones, but I will keep about any SPS coral.

 

[IraqVeteran]

Becki....look at this link http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4538+8104&pcatid=8104

This book, which you can pick up at Petsmart or Petco, is a great book with great advice. It is handy when you need a very quick answer. Also, dont buy any thing else from these two pet stores for you tank other than this book and maybe salt mix. But seriously, this book has some really good stuff that details certain things like matureing a tank, cycling the tank, the nitrification process, water changes. These are all things that one should have a pretty decent understanding on before you jump into the hobby.

Take your time and dont get discouraged. Remember, even the most experienced hobbyists make mistakes with there tanks. Just stick with it, be patient and you will see the fruits of your efforts in your tank over time.

I had to start all over again because my wife pretty much killed my big tank when I went to Iraq. It's my fault, I didnt give her the proper teachings on how to take care of my tank. It was hard to see all of my coral and fish no longer in there when I came back. Remember, take your time and read up a lot. Also, I would stay away from any damsels unless you plan on having a huge tank. The blue-green chromis are from that family and they generally are peacefull; especially when you keep several.

 

[Becki67]

Hello guys, thanks again for helping me so much. I've become addicted to this hobby and it's very interesting to do and learn all of this. I might sound weird, but my clown is definitely showing some personality...he comes up to the glass when I'm standing there and comes up to my hand when I'm feeding them.

I tested the water on Monday and the nitrites were down to .5 and the nitrates were moderate. The ammonia was at 0. Fingers crossed when I get home and test it again, the nitrites and ammonia will both be at 0. Then I'm going to do the water change. BUT, I will wait and won't let the BF buy anything else for a while, unless it's live rock or more live sand.

Every time I think I'm done asking questions, more pop up. How much sand do you suggest I have in the bottom. We only have about 2 inches right now. The last post said to have a lot...how much is a lot?

 

[dustin_P74]

since you have live rock you can save money and buy regular sand and it will seed and eventually become live. its also good to hear that the clowns are still kickin. with sand beds you either want deep meaning about 6 inches or shallow meaning leave it were it is. also what i did when my rites wouldnt go down and my ammonia was at zero was a 10% water change everyday and the rites and rates dropped. once that happens wait about two weeks to add a fish and then only add one fish per month after that.

 

[IraqVeteran]

I keep usually around 2 inches in my tanks. Some people will use no substrate at all. It really depends on what you want to accomplish in your tank. Personally, my only initial intention for my sandbed is for aesthetic reasons.

 

[Bifferwine]

I have 4 inches of sand in my tank. 6 inches will create a nice deep sand bed where nitrate will be converted into nitrogen gas by anaerobic bacteria, but most people don't put that much sand in because it takes up too much room. If you plan on having any sand sifting gobies or other fish that live in the sand, 4 inches is good. If not, 2 inches is fine.

 

[salt newbie01]

Becki I think you are getting some great advise here. I think doing small water changes may temp. help your water conditions but the ammonia and nitrites will come right back until the tank is cycled. To me it will be more stress on the fish having the parameters go up and down on the fish. I would agree that water changes are a reef tanks best friend, but I hold that statement for an established tank. A cycling tank is best left alone to run it's "natural cycle." Your situation is a little diff since there are already fish in the tank. But doing a small 5% water change is not going to make enough of an impact to make a diff + or- IMO. To me it would just be a waste of salt and time. But it isn't going to hurt you drastically either way you go.

The clown fish are some of the neatest fish (to me) in the hobby. They have lots of personality and always seem "happy" SOunds wierd but watch them for a while and see if you don't agree.

The liquid test kits are best - aquarium phar. has a nice range of tests that do fine - there are much more expensive test kits out there but I won't go there for now. You are on the right track though. Check with the great people on this site before making purchases and hopefully it will keep you from making a bad choice. This hobby is SO much fun and you will derive SO much pleasure from it. It just takes a while to get your bearings about you and then most of it will come easy.

Best of luck to you

 

[salt newbie01]

If you want the sand sifters mentioned make sure you get a fine particle sand - the real course stuff they won't be able to "sift" through. just a little fyi...

 

[fatman]

Becki I think you are getting some great advise here. I think doing small water changes may temp. help your water conditions but the ammonia and nitrites will come right back until the tank is cycled. To me it will be more stress on the fish having the parameters go up and down on the fish. I would agree that water changes are a reef tanks best friend, but I hold that statement for an established tank. A cycling tank is best left alone to run it's "natural cycle." Your situation is a little diff since there are already fish in the tank. But doing a small 5% water change is not going to make enough of an impact to make a diff + or- IMO. To me it would just be a waste of salt and time. But it isn't going to hurt you drastically either way you go.
The clown fish are some of the neatest fish (to me) in the hobby. They have lots of personality and always seem "happy" SOunds wierd but watch them for a while and see if you don't agree.

The liquid test kits are best - aquarium phar. has a nice range of tests that do fine - there are much more expensive test kits out there but I won't go there for now. You are on the right track though. Check with the great people on this site before making purchases and hopefully it will keep you from making a bad choice. This hobby is SO much fun and you will derive SO much pleasure from it. It just takes a while to get your bearings about you and then most of it will come easy.

Best of luck to you

:bounce:As long as the bacteria have enough food and oxygen to multiply they will. However, the bacteria do not need nutrient levels high enough that they are detrimental to the fish just in order to keep multiplying. The -left alone to do its thing cycling- is an old and outdated mode of starting up a bacteriological filtration system. It is like stick frame carpentry. Anybody can learn to do it, but it is not the best or most efficient way. It is just a way that will generally work for anyone that wants to just start it and walk away. Doing a water change to lessen the stress on the fish will inevitably still leave enough nutrients for bacterial development/multiplication in light especially of the fact that the fish are constantly suppling more nutrients. The bed will still develop, if you readings go up again do another water change. A little bit does make a difference to the fish, and its true it will make a huge difference to the developing bacteria, so why stress the fish. If a little bit does not drop the levels enough change a little more water.:^: The general recomendations for a sand bed is less than one inch or more than three inches. Deeper is better for removing nitrites. A general recommendation for live rock is 1.5 to 2 pounds per gallon of display tank capacity. The 1.5 is for porous rock such as Caribbean and the higher number is for denser rock such as Atlantic coral. Both numbers can be reduced with a deep sand bed, but stocking the tank must go slower with a deep sand bed replacing some of the live rock as a deep sand bed develops slower than rock that is already live with bacteria. Typically most people start a deep sand bed with dead sand as live sand is so expensive and heavy. My 120 gallon tanks have from 300 to 400 pounds of sand in them at any one time. Good live sand is $2.50 to $5.00 per pound plus shipping. I start a deep sand bed with 25 to 100 pounds of live sand on top of dead sand, and the amount varies with the amount of live rock it is replacing. Generally I reduce, over time. live rock down to 3/4 pound per gallon with a deep sand bed.

 

[Rcpilot]

I'm a huge fan of the deep sand bed. I agree that 6" is really the best depth for good nitrate reduction. 4" might do it, but 6" is better. 8" of sand would be totally awesome. But as Biff pointed out, not many people are willing to give up 6--8" of their tank to sand.

Thats why I like tall tanks. My 30g is 24" deep, but I have 6" of sand in it. The light really only has to push through 18" of water. My new 90g tank is 24" deep. I'm putting 6" of sand in there MINIMUM. I might go for 8" of sand in this tank. Sand seams to settle and "dissolve" as time progresses. 6" today will look like 4" in a year or two.

I think it is actually GOOD to turn a DSB slowly. Thats why I have a sand sifting goby. Thats a whole new discussion though.

I'd get rid of the damsels. Did I mention... Go Slow...? :Cheers:

 

[fatman]

I'm a huge fan of the deep sand bed. I agree that 6" is really the best depth for good nitrate reduction. 4" might do it, but 6" is better. 8" of sand would be totally awesome. But as Biff pointed out, not many people are willing to give up 6--8" of their tank to sand.

Thats why I like tall tanks. My 30g is 24" deep, but I have 6" of sand in it. The light really only has to push through 18" of water. My new 90g tank is 24" deep. I'm putting 6" of sand in there MINIMUM. I might go for 8" of sand in this tank. Sand seams to settle and "dissolve" as time progresses. 6" today will look like 4" in a year or two.

I think it is actually GOOD to turn a DSB slowly. Thats why I have a sand sifting goby. Thats a whole new discussion though.

I'd get rid of the damsels. Did I mention... Go Slow...? :Cheers:

Yepper, I like your thoughts present and/or opinions.