Oh no, I think it's ich

justanotherfishhead

justanotherfishhead

Lisa
Even though I used a quarantine tank for all my fish, I think I have ich now. My royal gramma is scratching himself on rocks and has some tiny white spots. I don't see anything on the other fish (but I know they are still infected). When I did QT none of my fish had any symptoms for 4 weeks before I put them in my tank. But I did not use any prevention treatment. I read that if a fish has any disease it will appear within 4 weeks QT. But I guess that's not true, and I should have used copper in the QT even though they all looked healthy.

So I know they can recover even if I don't do anything. But I'm probably going to upgrade to a 125 soon and I'm thinking that might be a good time to try to get rid of the ich. If I move my live rocks over to the new tank and let it sit with no fish (just feeding invertebrates of course) for 8 weeks, the ich will be gone and I can put the current fish through 4 week quarantines (with copper treatment this time) before they go into the new tank. Think this is a good idea? Or just forget it as long as the fish are still eating well and otherwise healthy? Then I guess there wouldn't be any point QTing new fish, since there's already ich in the tank? But they could have other diseases so it's probably still a good idea?
 
Well, if the fish is not stressed in qt, then it will not show signs of ich. Doesn't mean he doesn't have it. He must've been happy in QT. They only way QT will truly work is if you actually treat it regardless of the fish showing signs.

Also try consider doing hypo salinity instead of copper. It's easier, and puts less stress on the fish.
 
So I could move all the rocks with inverts and all the inverts to the new tank, then use hypo on all fish at once in my current tank before I move them? Does it kill off a lot of bacteria so that I would have to worry about watching the ammonia/trites?
 
Have you guys heard that ich will be gone from a tank after 11 months if you don't introduce new fish? See the quote below from the article linked below. If this is true, I could theoretically just wait until it's been 11 months since I added the last one, then treat new arrivals after that.

"14. INTERESTING FIND: If no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has ‘worn itself out’ and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months."

Marine Ich - Myths and Facts
 
I don't believe that one bit. I believe that what people are seeing is their fish's ability to fight off the parasite and it overall being a less stressful environment. Adding a new fish causes stress. Which is why ick tends to have outbreaks when new fish are added.
 
What I want to know is how they know ich is gone? Did they do tests? Did they check the water w/ a microscope? I would want to see more evidence other than "Well, my fish hasn't shown signs in a year". +1 fish and bj....a fish can keep ich at bay if you kept them happy and as stress free as possible.

OH and where is that person getting their information from? They do not state their credentials or references. I'd like to see a trustworthy source, like bob fenner, back that up. They say "Please don't spread rumors" yet their statements can be construed as rumors without basis for their information.
 
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But again, what it's lacking is references, and actual proof that they actually checked things out on the microscopic level.

Now, I did see a study back when I was fighting black ich. I have spent the past year trying to find that article again. It might be the same one they're talking about. But in the study I read, they did not say the ich died off...but rather the fish's bodies got so immune to the ich that they fought it off faster and faster each time. Kind of like humans and the flu and cold -- you get a strain once, your body learns how to fight it and next time, you don't get the symptoms, or at least your body fights it off easier. Doesn't mean the virus isn't there.

In the study I read (and to this day I smack myself for not being able to find it), they introduced ich to some tanks; treated one w/ hypo, one w/ copper, and one w/ no treatment. Over time, they learned that leaving the fish w/o treatment worked best over time because the more it was exposed to ich, the better it fought off the parasite.

They might just be misconstruing the experiment, and saying "Oh, ich was gone!" It wasn't that it was gone...the fish just got better at fighting it off.
 
+1 Wonton

I just find the premise of that whole idea ridiculous. Why would adding a new fish keep the ich alive longer? All fish are made up of the same parts and no fish is immune to ich. Adding a new fish isnt like adding a new and novel food or completing some part of its lifecycle. How is the ich suppose to "wear out"? Its a new organism each time, its not like its getting old and dying. Each generation of ich is just as capable of feeding on the fish and completing its life cycle as the previous ones. Its just the fish get better at keeping the ich under control.
 
I think they mean not just adding a new fish, but adding a new fish that ich, so it starts all over again with "fresh" ich (slightly different strain perhaps?). I don't know, I'm not saying I believe it either. Funny that this guy posted the same thing on other forums as well, and he dispels lots of myths about ich and says he wants to put an end to the rumors about ich.
 
What it boils down to in the end is that no one really knows everything about ich...but if you keep your fish healthy, then ich should be a non-issue. I go by the theory that a happy fish is a healthy fish :D Survival of the fittest!
 
Again I will bring this up again. I read an article in Aquaruim Fish International, by Johnath E. Freedman Ph.D., in which he states that a Protazoal infections such as ich and velvet, should be treated with Metronidazole. He also states that is has minimal antibacterial activity.

I have read over and over on various forums that this does no good with ich. I started to use it with my sick guys but stopped. For whatever reason I stopped. I also lost my Royal Gramma. Would he have died if I had continued? Who knows.

My main point is that relatively few people, if anyone, knows much about ich. Maybe it could die out after 11 months. I don't see any study proving the theory wrong either. I could see the potential of the parasites life cycle being broken if the fish develope an immunity to the parasite thus giving the parasite nothing to feed on causing it to die out. I'm not going to hold my breath think its true, but let's not dismiss the possibility without proof.

I've treated enough dogs with parvo and ones that we're HW+ to know that something's can be beaten and some cant. There are no miracle cure alls. I also know that life, in ALL it various forms, is a mystery.
 
Nonfamous said:
Again I will bring this up again. I read an article in Aquaruim Fish International, by Johnath E. Freedman Ph.D., in which he states that a Protazoal infections such as ich and velvet, should be treated with Metronidazole. He also states that is has minimal antibacterial activity.

I have read over and over on various forums that this does no good with ich. I started to use it with my sick guys but stopped. For whatever reason I stopped. I also lost my Royal Gramma. Would he have died if I had continued? Who knows.

My main point is that relatively few people, if anyone, knows much about ich. Maybe it could die out after 11 months. I don't see any study proving the theory wrong either. I could see the potential of the parasites life cycle being broken if the fish develope an immunity to the parasite thus giving the parasite nothing to feed on causing it to die out. I'm not going to hold my breath think its true, but let's not dismiss the possibility without proof.

I've treated enough dogs with parvo and ones that we're HW+ to know that something's can be beaten and some cant. There are no miracle cure alls. I also know that life, in ALL it various forms, is a mystery.
Click to expand...

Not for anything, but how are parvo and ich related?
 
Lots is known about ich, but lots of people also like to make widely speculative points from looking at a single case when they have no medical or scientific background.
 
+1 fish I'm not saying it's Impossible, but unless there are more tests and they actually used a microscope to show zero ich present, I'm doubtful. and results should be replicated more than once.

Again, if you keep fish happy and healthy, ich is a non issue.
 

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