Replenishing CUC?

[FishyReef]

My tank has been up and running since February and I added a pretty sizable CUC very early on (25 nass, 13 turbos, 10 banded trochus, 10 cerith, 10 turban astraea, 3 nerite, 2 margarita, 1 emerald crab, 3 urchins, 2 skunk cleaner shrimp, 1 lettuce sea slug - all by mid-march). I've been noticing more and more empty snail shells lately from all types and intentionally don't have any hermits so no one is killing them off. I'm wondering if this is pretty normal to be at a point of needing to replenish after 3 months, or if something else is going on? Several people suggested to me that I might have been having trouble with my zoas because my water is too clean, so I've been intentionally letting my nitrates creep up a little, and they've crept up a little higher than I wanted (they are around 20 at the moment - but my zoas are sprouting babies now!) so this could be contributing to snail loss, but I think my CUC began dwindling even before I let my nitrates creep up.

 

[SarahSmile]

I've got a lot of empty snail shells now too Fishy, which is why I just ordered bigger shells for my hermits (I was blaming them) and I ordered more snails to replenish. I was also just commenting on another thread that my nitrates are always at 20 no matter what I do. I am curious what is causing this snail sitch with us....you think nitrates huh?

 

[little_fish]

Snails are sensitive to nitrates, and they could be slowly poisoned by the nitrates. I also think that the process of transporting and acclimating them can also shorten their lifespan.

If you having algae issues, i would order more CUC, however if your algae level is manageable with what you have, I wouldnt order more.

 

[FishyReef]

Sarah, I don't know whether its nitrates, or whether it is just normal to need to replace after about 3 months. I know for sure mine isn't hermit related since I don't have any! I do know that I used to see a ton of snails always climbing on the glass and rocks, and would see a herd of nassiarus come out of the rocks and roam across the bottom of the tank when I would feed, but now I only see a handful of snails out in the open and only a few nassarius come when the dinner bell rings.

 

[FishyReef]

Hannah, algae is totally in check - I haven't even had to scrape off my back or side glass once in this tank. I've got a little more green on the rocks, but no hair algae, and no cyano. My blenny is even moving to my powerhreads to eat algae particals since there isn't much on the rocks for her to nibble on these days.

But what about detritivours? Should I think about replenishing them?

 

[little_fish]

I would replace the nass snails, but the herbivores I wouldnt worry about. Because they could also be starving to death if there is no food for them.

 

[SarahSmile]

Yup, I have the exact same thing going on (except I have 2 hermits), it's weird to see the snails dwindle when you're used to seeing lots of them out and about.
TONS of empty little dwarf cerith shells on the bottom of my tank, I mean, TONS.
Maybe you and little fish are on to something with the nitrates being the issue?

 

[SarahSmile]

Or maybe they are starving as you said Hannah, I do not have algae issues either. Was worried that if I didn't replenish the snails I would get into that...

 

[FishyReef]

I would replace the nass snails, but the herbivores I wouldnt worry about. Because they could also be starving to death if there is no food for them.

That's a really good point that I hadn't thought about! I just presumed that my glass stayed clean because I had so many and they were doing a good job. Never thought that I was losing them because they were starving to death! I think I will go ahead and pick up some nassies then, and maybe a few other detritus eaters since that seems to be my larger struggle.

 

[FishyReef]

Yeah, interesting that we're both experiencing the same thing Sarah! When did you last add your CUC, and where did you get them from?

 

[SarahSmile]

Oh geez, when was that, it was cold, maybe October/November? I ordered a 20 or 30 gallon quick crew from Reefcleaners.org. Have noticed lots of empty shells within the last 2 months. I blamed the 2 hermits I have and just ordered a 10 gallon quick crew from Reefcleaners to replenish and more hermit shells to curb their (supposed) blood lust, order is due in today.

 

[Bifferwine]

I agree with Hannah. Oftentimes, if you add too many cleaners in the beginning, a large portion of them will die off when the food runs out. Only add them if you need them -- if you don't have a lot of algae right now, don't add any more algae eating snails. I'd put my money on starvation for the ones you've lost.

 

[FishyReef]

So I'm going to only replenish the portions of my CUC that eat detritous, and would like to add a few new things that fall in this category since I am having a hard time getting detritious out of about half my tank due to rock work (despite many siphoning attempts and repositioning powerheads). I'm thinking of adding an atlantic sea cucumber from live aquaria (Saltwater Aquarium Inverts for Marine Reef Aquariums: Sea Cucumber - Atlantic (Build Your Own)). I know most are toxic and am not sure about this one - here's part of the description:

While it does not have the toxic tubules of Culvier that many cucumbers have, if frightened, it might disgorge its interal organs into the tank, which may be toxic to fish. In the wild, these organs often regenerate, but rarely in an aquarium setting.

Does anyone have or know about this species?

 

[slwedge71]

So I'm going to only replenish the portions of my CUC that eat detritous, and would like to add a few new things that fall in this category since I am having a hard time getting detritious out of about half my tank due to rock work (despite many siphoning attempts and repositioning powerheads). I'm thinking of adding an atlantic sea cucumber from live aquaria (Saltwater Aquarium Inverts for Marine Reef Aquariums: Sea Cucumber - Atlantic (Build Your Own)). I know most are toxic and am not sure about this one - here's part of the description:



Does anyone have or know about this species?

:shock: That sounds kind of sick man. Discharging it's internal organs??? YUCK!! :shock:

 

[Bifferwine]

Sea cukes are cool, but I don't think they do much as far as cleaning goes. I wouldn't count on one to make a difference in a tank. But they are neat animals and pretty easy to keep.

 

[FishyReef]

Sea cukes are cool, but I don't think they do much as far as cleaning goes. I wouldn't count on one to make a difference in a tank. But they are neat animals and pretty easy to keep.

Would I be better off going with a brittle or serpant star and a couple of fighting conches? I'm so tired of my tank bottom be totally covered in crap!

 

[Bifferwine]

Yes, stars and conchs do a good job. You can get fighting conchs and I've also had red footed conchs. They are neat animals. In a 90 gallon, I'd get two stars. Do you think you are overfeeding? That could lead to detritus build up on the sand.

 

[FishyReef]

I really don't think I'm overfeeding - 1 cube every other day for 7 fish, 2 cleaner shrimp, a crab, a feather duster, and several corals that I watch actively eat when I feed. There is rarely stuff left floating in the water column. I think part of it is that I didn't rinse my dry rocks before putting them in the tank and had a ton of stuff fall of the rocks and onto the base of the tank between the rocks when I was first starting. I would guess half of that is probably rock that has broken apart/disintegrated. Most of that is still there and gets kicked up by fish swimming through the rockwork - my wrasse is particularly adept at kicking stuff up. I also don't really have many detritus eaters in my tank, just whatever remaining nassarius and cerith snails are left. I haven't seen any bristleworms or micro brittlestars (other than one that came out of a coral frag in the dip). I've done my best to siphon out what I can, but there are just a lot of places behind/under the rocks that I can't reach but can see the build up. I've also tried blowing it out with flow but no luck. It might also look worse than it is because I don't have a sand bed right now so it is particularly noticeable. I had hoped to get the base of my tank clean before adding a sand bed, but am giving up hope on that and think a better option is to add a sand bed and a more diverse clean up crew.