Starting a Sump question

[grozier]

sorry on my phone and can't use the search option. will a 3 foot 38 gallon tank be alright for a 125 gallon tank to be used as a sump? also my tank is not drilled would I be better off draining the water down and drilling holes or use a hang on back overflow box? and what kind of pump be good there's too many choices and skimmer. I know having a sump is better than not having a sump but would a 30 a gallon on a 125 gallon get done what I need to be done?

 

[poksal]

Wow, my 90 is drilled.. and it scares me to trust a HOB.. but I know quite a few have them and feel fairly secure. There are some good HOB units and I'm sure some members will recommend a few. IMO, if you are starting and have the chance, ... is to drill the tank. But let others voice their opinions too.

You will overflow of your sump if you do not size the sump right according to how much water is above your overflow in your display tank. Your dividers in the sump need to be at a level that allows all the water in your tank above the overflow and the contents of the piping to flow down into the sump and not overflow it. You should be able to do that just fine with a 38 gallon.. my sump is a 15 gallon and my tank is a 95 gallon... and I have a refugium that also flows back some into the sump at power failure.

I "think" what is an additional concern with HOB overflows is that if they loose suction your return pump in your sump doesn't overflow the display tank. But.. you best listen to someone with experience in HOB overflows.

I will be drilling my 20 long to be used as a frag tank in the next few days and will be posting my progress and processes with pictures if you wish to tag along there and see how it goes. Presently I am waiting for the drills to arrive and expect them as early as tomorrow (1/9/13). That thread is at ... https://www.livingreefs.com/poksals-20-long-frag-tank-build-t45302.html

I am not expert enough with skimmers brands to be of any help with that discipline.

 

[Ulta]

Not too sure about drilling an already established tank... you DO have to keep the bit wet while drilling to reduce friction and heat. not sure if you can do it with an already filled tank.

Do not skimp on an overflow box if you go that direction, get the best and like Poksal said, test it for failures to prevent disaster.

and oh, i think you should have a bigger sump ;) my 75g has a 50g sump =P

 

[grozier]

I can't really go bigger with the stand I have and my wife wants some storage in the stand. What about pumps

 

[poksal]

I can't really go bigger with the stand I have and my wife wants some storage in the stand. What about pumps

My answer to that problem was to watch for a (in my case free) small acrylic tank to add and fit the cabinet as an additional refugium. I feed it off a pump that also feeds all my reactors and such. I wanted an acrylic because it can be drilled with a plain old common hole saw if you are careful.

 

[grozier]

I just bought a 36x15x17 tank today for 30 bucks. I didn't want to go any bigger do to storage.

 

[poksal]

I just bought a 36x15x17 tank today for 30 bucks. I didn't want to go any bigger do to storage.

I think, that will do nicely.. my total volume of sump and refugium is around the 25 gallon area and I think with sump being about half full to allow for that over flow stuff I may have a total of about 15 gallons of actual water running in the lower area of my cabinet. Well, if you include the reactors add another 1-1/2 gallons.

 

[grozier]

What are these reactors people speak of?

 

[poksal]

Well in my case I run a two canister set of GFO and carbon reactors at a trickle and sometimes I turn them off.. or on.. according to my PO4 level or I think I could use some carbon purification. Then I run a Bio-pellet reactor which has carbon pellets in it that tumble and supply a small dose of carbon 24-7 which feeds some kinds of bacteria.. it is an alternative to vodka dosage. There are plenty of mixed opinions on those. But the bio-pellet reactor is about a gallon size and only has about a 1/2 cup of pellets..

Please understand, while I'm an "all in" kind of guy, I'm still a new comer to this hobby... so consider that in your decision making.

 

[grozier]

Half of this stuff its way over my head no matter how much I read

 

[Bifferwine]

You want to go as big as you can for a sump. Whatever fits in your stand. :) A 30 gallon sump will be fine. That will fit whatever you want to put in there. Since your tank is not drilled, I would recommend going with an overflow box. If you want to drill the tank, you will have to drain it, and that would be a hassle.

 

[poksal]

Half of this stuff its way over my head no matter how much I read

That is ok.. me too for a while.. and still to some extent.. hang around and the light bulb starts to blink and eventually it comes on... it IS a head full at first.. :scratchch :confused:

It comes around soon enough.. just take it slow .. you have to anyway.. nothing happens fast in this hobby.:question:

 

[grozier]

You want to go as big as you can for a sump. Whatever fits in your stand. :) A 30 gallon sump will be fine. That will fit whatever you want to put in there. Since your tank is not drilled, I would recommend going with an overflow box. If you want to drill the tank, you will have to drain it, and that would be a hassle.

That dr foster guy site has some overflow boxes and I know marineland makes some too. Would I want 2 smaller ones (one on each side of tank) or one bigger one? Can the gph rate on the box be greater than the pump? Which brings me to my next question of what pump ship I need? Gph?
Woulda liked a bigger sump but wifey said noooo!

 

[poksal]

Let me correct a concept.. if I may

You want the over flow box to handle more than the pump can push back up or into your display tank.. the tank water will only flow down the over flow at the rate of which the water exceeds the height of the over flow tube or tubes. So, if you will, the over flow (drilled or HOB) is in effect a spillway.

If the over flow cannot exceed the pumped return, the sump could over fill your display tank.

But in the opposite case, the display tank cannot over flow your sump if you make sure it can handle all the water at a level above the over flow tube inlet height (or the spillway).

.... pretend your tank is a lake.. and it has a dam and a spillway. Think of the dam and banks as the tank and think of the spillway as the over flow.. (actually it is). Now, if you pump the water back into the lake from the over flow pond below the dam you will cause the lake to constantly spill over the spill way. This is what you are doing. Except with a HOB you have to have a way to lift the water over the rim of the aquarium tank.. this is the over flow box's job.

Does this make it any more clear or is it still muddy?

 

[grozier]

I think the sand is starting to settle I can't oversize overflow, but I can over size the pump rate.

 

[poksal]

If you oversize the pump rate it will suck air and pump bubbles into your tank.. so I put a ball valve in my return to restrict it some, but i don't need to. I also put a big one in my over flow pipe.. to be able to turn them both off if I need. and I have done that several times.. sometimes -> when I feed the coral.. I turn off both of those valves then turn off the main pump so all the water above the over flow doesn't run into my sump while I let the coral food settle around some. Having those ball valves is mighty handy and they are not expensive and are off the shelf at Home Depot.