Marines_Wife
Reef enthusiast
Well the only time I would invest in one is integrated in the canister filter I was wanting to buy.
I guess my question then is sort of this:
Why do people have any sort of filter at all? Sumps or canister filters?
To UV or not UV that is the question.
- Thread starter Marines_Wife
- Start date
Well the only time I would invest in one is integrated in the canister filter I was wanting to buy.
I guess my question then is sort of this:
Why do people have any sort of filter at all? Sumps or canister filters?
Marines_Wife
Reef enthusiast
Now this is odd to me because...well to be honest a lot of the reefers in my area frequently swap stuff to get rid of a particular problem that they are encountering as long as the rest of the tank is healthy......Why would it not be ok to temporarily have a tang put in a tank to cure a specific problem....I mean I understand that long term it is certainly not the ideal situation for it but in the short term why not?
Marines_Wife
Reef enthusiast
I like the low maintenance part, thanks for sharing
ErinCahir
Sausage Wrangler
Because locking you in a closet for a month would still be cruel.
Marines_Wife
Reef enthusiast
touche. I get the point. That being said with the baby that my tank is becoming to me I dont think I could give any of my pets up for a few weeks...
Wes888
Reef enthusiast
My blue tangs had ich when I first got it few years ago. I got a 55W UV hooked up. Not too long later. Ich's gone. Amphipods' gone. And you would think the copepods who usually just hang out the tank wall would last. Nope, it's gone as well. Any trace of any type of algae also gone. Water was crystal clear. Actually, sterilize probably is a better term.
Had it hooked up for about 8 months, just to make sure any stage of the ich were gone, then I disconnected it. A years later, still not a trace of any type of pods. I had to buy some pods to re-seed the tank. Bought some LR to re-introduce some other live to the tank. Intentionally put some algae into the tank to make the water not as clear so that the filter feeders and pods have something to eat and reproduce.
Just want to give you a sense of what UV can do to a tank. Both good and bad.
Had it hooked up for about 8 months, just to make sure any stage of the ich were gone, then I disconnected it. A years later, still not a trace of any type of pods. I had to buy some pods to re-seed the tank. Bought some LR to re-introduce some other live to the tank. Intentionally put some algae into the tank to make the water not as clear so that the filter feeders and pods have something to eat and reproduce.
Just want to give you a sense of what UV can do to a tank. Both good and bad.
Marines_Wife
Reef enthusiast
Wow.thank you. Obviously it served it'd purpose but was overkill after.
Zissou
What about my dynamite?
If you happen to get one, don't leave it on and look at the light when cleaning it or you'll roast your eyeballs. Seem to remember somebody losing their vision for awhile.
I think in most cases a UV is simply unnecessary. Routine water changes, QT, and not overfeeding will solve and prevent most of the problems you'll ever face.
I think in most cases a UV is simply unnecessary. Routine water changes, QT, and not overfeeding will solve and prevent most of the problems you'll ever face.
Northstar24
The Tang Herder
Marines wife, to answer your question, there are a few things accomplished by running a sump system. The first is that you're adding water volume to your system. This means (in theory) you can have more livestock. It also means that it will take longer for bad things to happen to your system (temperature changes , waste build up etc) because the more water you have, the longer it takes to change parameter wise
Secondly, the sump allows you to run a refugium (you can however, run refugiums that hang on the side or back of the tank as well) This is a place where little critters beneficial to the tank can live/grow/reproduce while being safe from coral and fish predation. You can also have macro algae in here, which helps filter the water (think if it almost as a natural canister filter that doesn't need changing or cleaning, just periodic pruning to keep growth in check)
Lastly, A sump gives you an out of sight place to hide things like protein skimmers, mechanical filtration, and heaters, etc
Like little fish, i wont comment about the 28 gallon with a tang in it. I have a 180 and there are days when the tangs seem too big for that....
Secondly, the sump allows you to run a refugium (you can however, run refugiums that hang on the side or back of the tank as well) This is a place where little critters beneficial to the tank can live/grow/reproduce while being safe from coral and fish predation. You can also have macro algae in here, which helps filter the water (think if it almost as a natural canister filter that doesn't need changing or cleaning, just periodic pruning to keep growth in check)
Lastly, A sump gives you an out of sight place to hide things like protein skimmers, mechanical filtration, and heaters, etc
Like little fish, i wont comment about the 28 gallon with a tang in it. I have a 180 and there are days when the tangs seem too big for that....
little_fish
Moderator
I dont think that adding a sump allows you to keep more livestock, adding a sump only adds to your total water volume, not the amount of space your fish have to live in.
But have a bigger water volume is very beneficial, it dilutes out the bad stuff more and changes will happen more slowly which is always a plus in our tanks.
But have a bigger water volume is very beneficial, it dilutes out the bad stuff more and changes will happen more slowly which is always a plus in our tanks.
Marines_Wife
Reef enthusiast
Well a sump is not something I'm even considering doing with this tank.one day I hope to though.
Smitty
Reef pro
Yeah, don't stress over it...I don't have one neither. :)
irensing
Controversial Reefer
Increasing water volume definately allows for more stock. I don't understand all these comments about the amount of space for fish. How do you know if your fish is unhappy? Does he tell you? If the fish is colorful, healthy, normal behavior and lives that's all that really matters. When you purchase your tank from the LFS is he kept in a 100g tank? Are any of the fish in a large tank? No. They are kept in 6-12" cubes and the amount of fish stock that can be tolerated is based on the volume of water in the system. Living in Florida I am able to purchase from fish wholesalers. Has anyone ever seen what these operations look like? 1000s of fish packed in tiny spaces for a very long time. The fish you bought has been just fine living in bags and tiny spaces anywhere from 1-6 months and has potentially traveled around the world.
Jmck
Reef enthusiast
Irensing, you are actually irritating me.
This is one of the most incorrect statements you could have made. Ill give you some facts...
A lot of fish die on the way from the ocean, the wholesalers and then to the shops. The next part is most shops move fish quite quickly. They are not kept in small tanks long and even then, my LFS has told me they receive tangs who are completely unable to adapt to life in tanks and die anyway. next, if I was to take you, and tell you to live in a closet for the rest of your life... could you do it? Yes, probably, but would this make you happy? Certainly not.
In fact, my LFS DOES keep its tangs in 100g tanks and nothing smaller. That is because he is responsible. Others are not this nice.
Also, increasing your water volume does not increase swimming space. For example, sea horses prefer a taller tank and will not do well in a short tank due to how they swim, they may survive but be unhappy. Tanks and angels need large amounts of horizontal swimming space and thus you could have a 125g tank which is narrow and small and have your tank die. So, if I add a sump, which adds water volume to dilute our errors, how does this create more swimming space that will allow you to hold more fish? you would still be crowding more fish to close together. Im having territory issues while adding a 4th fish to my 60g as my clowns take over there 1ft cube area and anything that enters gets bitten.
To your comment about knowing if they are stressed, a member literally suggested that due to the activity of his tangs in his 180g tank that his fish may need a larger tank. He has obviously stated that there are levels of stress shown in that fish or the suggestion that their may be as they continue to grow.
So before you know all the facts. Please do not state that an LFS is a perfect example of how a fish should be kept in the long term. They do what they can to sell you a fish and also do not take much regard as having the correct systems to house each and every large fish they get will cause the LFS to incur costs it simply cannot afford.
This is one of the most incorrect statements you could have made. Ill give you some facts...
A lot of fish die on the way from the ocean, the wholesalers and then to the shops. The next part is most shops move fish quite quickly. They are not kept in small tanks long and even then, my LFS has told me they receive tangs who are completely unable to adapt to life in tanks and die anyway. next, if I was to take you, and tell you to live in a closet for the rest of your life... could you do it? Yes, probably, but would this make you happy? Certainly not.
In fact, my LFS DOES keep its tangs in 100g tanks and nothing smaller. That is because he is responsible. Others are not this nice.
Also, increasing your water volume does not increase swimming space. For example, sea horses prefer a taller tank and will not do well in a short tank due to how they swim, they may survive but be unhappy. Tanks and angels need large amounts of horizontal swimming space and thus you could have a 125g tank which is narrow and small and have your tank die. So, if I add a sump, which adds water volume to dilute our errors, how does this create more swimming space that will allow you to hold more fish? you would still be crowding more fish to close together. Im having territory issues while adding a 4th fish to my 60g as my clowns take over there 1ft cube area and anything that enters gets bitten.
To your comment about knowing if they are stressed, a member literally suggested that due to the activity of his tangs in his 180g tank that his fish may need a larger tank. He has obviously stated that there are levels of stress shown in that fish or the suggestion that their may be as they continue to grow.
So before you know all the facts. Please do not state that an LFS is a perfect example of how a fish should be kept in the long term. They do what they can to sell you a fish and also do not take much regard as having the correct systems to house each and every large fish they get will cause the LFS to incur costs it simply cannot afford.
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irensing
Controversial Reefer
I would imagine Australian trade is way different than the US. You're much closer to where the fish are coming from right? I'm not really sure how things work over there. My friends is a wholesaler. He has a 30,000 sq warehouse. I know how the US business works. I've seen fish shipped in out right away. I've seen fish sit for months and some more than a year in their tiny little boxes and do just fine. All fish are different. Some adapt. Many don't. Unfortuatnely in this hobby fish die more than they live. If they survive the gauntlet then chances are they can do well in a confined space. I can't adapt to a closet because I'm a human not a fish. We don't know how the fish is "feeling". We just know if he's healthy and acting normal. If he's too confined then you'd know. I'm not condoning this practice. All I'm saying is that it is very possible to have a "happy" active large fish in a confined space.
If you add more water volume then your tank will be easier to keep stable, tolerate more waste and hold nutrients longer. Technically you can add more stock. If you have territory issues, aggressive fish, too much rock, bad rock positioning, etc. then these are all factors that would play into stocking more or larger fish in a given area.
If you add more water volume then your tank will be easier to keep stable, tolerate more waste and hold nutrients longer. Technically you can add more stock. If you have territory issues, aggressive fish, too much rock, bad rock positioning, etc. then these are all factors that would play into stocking more or larger fish in a given area.
Cathic
Fish Wrangler
Just wow....
irensing
Controversial Reefer
I just want to clarify, I would never put a fish in a tank that couldn't swim freely. I wouldn't put a 5"+ tang in a 29g tank. This conversation started because it was commented that I shouldn't have a yellow tang in a 29g tank which I believe would not be a problem in many cases.
ErinCahir
Sausage Wrangler
Because you shouldn't put a yellow tang in a 29G tank. There I said it again.
little_fish
Moderator
Every creature has the right to live in a space large enough to accommodate their growing size. Putting a tang in 28 gallon tank is a grievous violation of that.
Also, the easiest way to know if your fish is stress is if they are getting diseases. Which your fish were every time your UV bulb went out. And the fact that your tang got black spot and then fin rot says a whole lot about his "happiness and health" in your tank. I cant thing of a single person on here that has had serious health issues with their fish if they are in a correctly sized tank in the year that i have been reading every single post on here. Im sure that members who have been on here longer can also back me up on this.
Also, the easiest way to know if your fish is stress is if they are getting diseases. Which your fish were every time your UV bulb went out. And the fact that your tang got black spot and then fin rot says a whole lot about his "happiness and health" in your tank. I cant thing of a single person on here that has had serious health issues with their fish if they are in a correctly sized tank in the year that i have been reading every single post on here. Im sure that members who have been on here longer can also back me up on this.
irensing
Controversial Reefer
I agree. I didn't mean to upset anyone and I apologize for being confrontational. I wasn't clear when we started this conversation. I've never had problems with fish disease even before my UV. When I said things start going wrong when the UV goes out I wasn't implying fish disease, just things in general, algae growth, nitrates, etc. also, the tang got the black spot within a day so I'm fairly certain he already had something going on.
