Wanted: skimmer for 75 gallon

[slm32123]

Hey guys, I am looking for a skimmer for my 75 gallon i'm going to set up. I would really like it to be an octopus skimmer, but i need to get it for a low price since im only 17 and on a very tight budget. But let me know what you have, and how much, and i will let you know if itll work out for me, and when i would be able to purchase it.

 

[Reefkeepr]

Octo bh-2000 on my 72g. Works like a charm and minimal bubbles.

 

[Reefkeepr]

And it cost $170.00 with free shipping from salty supply. Shipped out three hours after my order went through.

 

[little_fish]

You should look into building an algae scrubber. They can be built for much less and from what i have read, just as good as a skimmer, although it should be noted they do different things . . . kinda. They both pull out nutrients, just at different stages.

There is an excellent sticky on this in the DIY section,

https://www.livingreefs.com/mega-powerful-nitrate-and-phosphate-remover-diy-t16734.html

 

[BL1]

You should look into building an algae scrubber. They can be built for much less and from what i have read, just as good as a skimmer, although it should be noted they do different things . . . kinda. They both pull out nutrients, just at different stages.

There is an excellent sticky on this in the DIY section,

https://www.livingreefs.com/mega-powerful-nitrate-and-phosphate-remover-diy-t16734.html

While I'm not doubting that algae scrubbers are effective, you should read this Little Fish:

Without getting too deep into what a skimmer actually does, (I'll post some detailed info links) let's just say if you don't use a skimmer, the aprox 30% of TOC's (Total Organic Carbon) that a skimmer removes, won't get removed. I think it's a safe assumption to say most ppl who use a skimmer also do regular maintanence on their tank. Water changes will dilute whatever may be built up to a certain degree, but they won't move the additional TOC's a skimmer would have removed in addition to the water change. The long term build up of TOC's may not affect some systems where corals aren't as demanding in water quality, but it will affect the more delicate corals, like SPS, which demand pristine water quality. Unfortunately, unless you have about $12,000 for a TOC analyzer, we have no way to know exactly what the TOC levels are in our systems, but Ken Feldman is doing some work now on TOC removal with skimmers and GAC. The article should have some interesting info when it gets published.

Algae scrubbers have been around forever....well at least they were around when I started my reef a little over 20 yrs ago. They, along with chaeto, do help with nutrient export, but they do not remove what a skimmer removes. A skimmer will remove the ingredients that make up the algaes food.

And here's some good reading, but it's not easy reading. :wink:
Feature Article: Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water? | Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

Feature Article: The Development of a Method for the Quantitative Evaluation of Protein Skimmer Performance | Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

Also, slm, you should go to aquacave.com they have the Octopus BH-100 for $120 and shipping is a flat $5.

 

[little_fish]

While I do agree with you BL1, i think you should also read this:

Update of the Day: New Research on Skimmers and Organics:

The whole point of scrubbers is that they remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are the things your test kits measure, and which are also the things that cause nuisance algae to grow. The other good point about scrubbers is that they leave Organics (food) in the water for the corals and fish and bacteria to eat (the bacteria also then become coral food.) People who prefer skimmers, however, say that skimmers removes Organics (food) before they break down into Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate.

I say, why not just feed less, instead of feeding more and then removing it with a skimmer? Let's look at it from their viewpoint. Their viewpoint is "Feed more, and remove the excess Organics (food) with the skimmer." Well, the current January 2009 issue of Advanced Aquarist just published extensive research into how well different skimmers remove Organics. They refer to Organics as "TOC", which is the Total Organic Carbon; TOC is the the combination of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC), and Particulate Organic Carbon (POC). Here is the article, and this is what it said:

Feature Article: The Development of a Method for the Quantitative Evaluation of Protein Skimmer Performance | Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

"In addition to some dissolved organics, small particulates and microbes (bacterioplankton, phytoplankton) can be removed at the air/water interface of the [skimmer] bubble as well (Suzuki, 2008). The skimming process does not remove atoms/molecules that are strictly polar and readily dissolve in water, such as some organics, salts, inorganic phosphate, carbonate, etc.

"The skimmer pulls out all of the TOC that it is going to remove by the 50-minute mark. Beyond that time point, nothing much is happening, and the TOC level doesn't change much.

"Thus, all skimmers tested remove around 20 - 30% of the TOC in the aquarium water, and that's it; 70 - 80% of the measurable TOC is left behind unperturbed by the skimming process. It may be possible to develop a rationalization for this unexpected behavior by referring back to Fig. 1. Perhaps only 20 - 30% of the organic species in the aquarium water meet the hydrophobic requirements for bubble capture, whereas the remaining 70-80%, for whatever reason, don't."

So, the strength of skimmers (since they don't remove Inorganics) is supposed to be that they remove Organics before they break down. But this research shows (once again) that they don't even remove the Organics. Here is additional 2008 reasearch that shows the same:

Feature Article: Total Organic Carbon (TOC) and the Reef Aquarium: an Initial Survey, Part I | Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine
Feature Article: Total Organic Carbon (TOC) and the Reef Aquarium: an Initial Survey, Part II | Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

the above is from: https://www.livingreefs.com/mega-powerful-nitrate-and-phosphate-remover-diy-t16734p6.html

Q: Since scrubbers don't remove food from the water like skimmers do, won't the DOC (dissolved organic carbon) build up and cause problems?
A: No. You need to realize that DOC is food also; it's just microscopically small food, mostly eaten by bacteria, and by some corals. So the DOC gets to a certain level and stays there, since it's being consumed by bacteria and corals. And the bacteria themselves are food for corals too. But also you need to know that recent research has shown that skimmers actually don't remove (much) DOC as previously thought. Skimmers are mostly removing POC (particulate organic carbon), i.e. pieces of food. That's why they are called "protein skimmers", because food is protein.

Q: What exactly does a scrubber do to my water?
A: It takes ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, inorganic nitrate, inorganic phosphate, metals (like copper, aluminum and iron), and CO2 out of the water. It puts oxygen into the water. It also cools the water if you have an open-air design. And if you put a fan on it, it REALLY cools the water. Increased evaporation will also occur, unless you use an enclosed unit. Baby copepods (tiny white dust specs) are added to the water. Iron and Iodine are removed from the water. Alkalinity may in some cases be slightly decreased, because of algae's slight use of bicarbonate to get CO2. Water clarity (meaning tinting, which is different from particles) is also sometimes improved, although it is not known why. Lastly, organic molecules are put into the water: Carbohydrates, vitamins, proteins, enzymes, lipids, and these amino acids: valine, leucine, tyrosine, phenylalanine, methionine, aspartate, glutamate, serine, alanine, and proline.

Q: I keep hearing "Yes, skimmers DO remove nitrate and phosphate! They just do it by removing organics BEFORE they break down into nitrates and phosphates"
A: That's just great. Organics, before they "break down", are called FOOD. Yes, FOOD. So yes, skimmers DO remove FOOD (i.e., "protein"). But saying that removing FOOD is the same thing as removing nitrates and phosphates is like saying that removing BEER before you drink it is the same as removing pee afterwards. Wouldn't you rather have the beer, and remove the pee? Skimmers remove the food that you put in the tank, period. If removing food is what you need, then a skimmer is a must-have. Skimmers are recommended for fish-only tanks, especially with large predators.

these above is from Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ (August 2010)

I think it should be noted how many people on this site are not running skimmers and havent noticed any delirious effects from it. I think that many people use skimmers because that is what everyone else is doing, and it is a several thousand dollar business industry. People are paid to promote skimmers where as no one produces commercial algae scrubber to there is not one out their to run mass ads for them.

Personally, i think they do the same thing - they remove excess nutrients, however their method is different. Maybe i have miss-understood something, but i think they both lead up to the same thing. The skimmer removes the TOC and the scrubber removes the inorganic molecules. How long it takes for the bacteria to degrade the TOC to inorganic molecules creates the difference between the two, so maybe a time laps of 8 -12 hrs?

Also considering he is on a tight budget, this may be the best option for him.