Territorial already?

[Powrsurg]

I'm new to this hobby but am fascinated by it so far. I have a 75 gallon tank with a fuval FX5 filter, about 20-30 pounds of live rock and 40 pounds of live substrate. After setting up the tank and getting the water to temperature, it was suggested to me by my dealer to put a few Damsels in the tank to help with cycling. I paid the 10 bucks and was happymid have fish soon.

I have lie rock on the left of the tank near the intake and put love rock on the right side of the tank near the outflow. The fish will not leave the left side of the tank. They also chase each other away from the intake. It's like they all want to claim that area as their own. They are eating well and seem ok.

Is it normal for these fish to refuse to swim to the other side of the tank?

 

[ErinCahir]

You need more rock in the tank... they're all trying to hide in the same spot because they can't hide where there is no rock.

Also, you shouldn't cycle your tank with fish, it is unnecessary and cruel. You should see if the store will take them back.

Welcome to the site!

 

[Powrsurg]

Thanks Erin,

It's great to be here. After cycling is complete and I put more fish in, would the new ones stay to the right side if that is where they are placed? rock being expensive it's going to take a bit of time to connect both sides like you see in those nice reef tanks.

PS - I understand now why I shouldn't have put he fish in before the cycling ended. Curious as to why I was told to put them in. The shop near me is considered one of the better ones on long island.

 

[Slimkasey]

Welcome, don't feel bad about getting duped by the LFS, you ar not the only one,
Once you are cycled any fish will pick their spots, but to make it easier on you, take your time, build up the live rock, create areas of shelter, a beautiful foundation and it will help stabilize your water so much faster. Then it'll be a smoother transition adding in fish and then down the line any coral if you want reef.

 

[Powrsurg]

Thanks for the advise!

I would like an assortment of fish and invertebrates. The challenge is finding fish that won't eat each other, coral, or the invertebrates. I've been compiling a list based on some short research. Here it is.

Clown Fish
Squarespot Anthias
Garden Eel (really want this guy)
Auriga Butterfly
Royal Dottyback
Royal Gramma
Yellow Head Jawfish (as well as this one)
Green Chromis
Blue Chromis
Blackbar Chromis
Carpenters Flasher Wrasse
Spinyhead Blenny
Spotted Manderin
Monofinned dartfish
Firefish
Chocolate Surgeonfish

Coral is a long term possibility just not a near term goal. I love the live rock and watching what time will grow out of it.

 

[Powrsurg]

You need more rock in the tank... they're all trying to hide in the same spot because they can't hide where there is no rock.

Also, you shouldn't cycle your tank with fish, it is unnecessary and cruel. You should see if the store will take them back.

Welcome to the site!

I remember now why I was told I could buy fish. The kid at the store (=stupid me) said that the live sand was going to cycle me immediately and that I wouldn't have to wait the week or two process. Oh stupid me. Lol

 

[Samhain]

Thanks for the advise!

I would like an assortment of fish and invertebrates. The challenge is finding fish that won't eat each other, coral, or the invertebrates. I've been compiling a list based on some short research. Here it is.

Clown Fish
Squarespot Anthias
Garden Eel (really want this guy)
Auriga Butterfly
Royal Dottyback
Royal Gramma
Yellow Head Jawfish (as well as this one)
Green Chromis
Blue Chromis
Blackbar Chromis
Carpenters Flasher Wrasse
Spinyhead Blenny
Spotted Manderin
Monofinned dartfish
Firefish
Chocolate Surgeonfish

That's a huge list! It's going to need some further narrowing, since you're limited to about 7-8 fish once you add at least 40 more pounds of live rock (the rule of thumb is 1 fish/10 gallons and 1-2 lbs of live rock/gallon).

And here are some things to keep in mind:
-Butterflies are fairly delicate and not reef-safe
-Dottybacks, basslets (royal gramma), and dartfish can fight with each other for territory
-Dartfish, jawfish, and wrasses are known jumpers, so they need tight lids or canopies
-Mandarins are difficult to keep since theyneed well-established tanks with huge pod populations since they don't adapt to frozen food very well.
-Anthias really need a larger tank than 75 gallons and do better in schools

 

[Powrsurg]

That's a huge list! It's going to need some further narrowing, since you're limited to about 7-8 fish once you add at least 40 more pounds of live rock (the rule of thumb is 1 fish/10 gallons and 1-2 lbs of live rock/gallon).

And here are some things to keep in mind:
-Butterflies are fairly delicate and not reef-safe
-Dottybacks, basslets (royal gramma), and dartfish can fight with each other for territory
-Dartfish, jawfish, and wrasses are known jumpers, so they need tight lids or canopies
-Mandarins are difficult to keep since theyneed well-established tanks with huge pod populations since they don't adapt to frozen food very well.
-Anthias really need a larger tank than 75 gallons and do better in schools

1 fish per 10 gallons? I've been readin 1 fish per 5 gallons with the possibility of increasing to 1 to 3 if you have a very well established tank.

I do have to narrow the list down further. This is just the first run. The garden eel and jawfish are top on the list thought.

 

[MikeG]

Welcome to the site.

You don't have to buy all live rock (it is very expensive). You can buy dry rock and add it to you tank and in a short time it will become live rock. Check out Marco Rocks (marcorocks.com) they have dry rock at very reasonable prices. I used probably 85% dry rock in my 180g, saved alot of $ that way.

Go slow and take your time, research all fish your interested in before buying. In the end you'll be glad you did. Even with live sand and live rock it will take your tank 3 to 4 weeks approx. to cycle. Take the fish back and wait for the cycle to complete. Use the time your tank is cycling to add more rock, then after the cycle you can add a fish or two at a time, waiting about 3 weeks between adding new fish to allow your tank time to adjust to the bio load produced by the new additions. Always add passive fish first and give them time to adjust before adding semi-agressive fish.

Again, welcome. :D

 

[MikeG]

Also, damsels are very agressive and if you leave them in there and they do survive the cycle they will harass (and possibly kill) any fish you add later unless that fish is super agressive.

 

[Northstar24]

I would not advice one fish per 5 gallons, and definitely not one fish per 3 gallons.

To make 1 fish per 3 gallons even remotely possible, you're going to need more than 1-2 pounds of live rock per gallon, a very large, mature refugium, and an oversized protein skimmer.

It sounds like its time for you to find a new LFS. Before adding anything else to your tank, get some additional rock so that you have 1-2 pounds per gallon. Its pretty much the most important thing for your tank filtration wise - anyone that told you different at your fish place needs a new job.

Since you already have some live rock, I would buy dry rock for the rest of your tank - Marco Rocks or Bulk Reef Supply sell dry rock at a good price.

The problem with adding rock after sand is you'll have rock sitting on the sand, which slowly dissolves over time to keep our ph stable. You also have some burrowing fish on your potential stock list - these two things and rocks on the sand will probably add up to a rock slide in your tank - which can kill livestock, or even break one of panes of glass that make up your tank.

Another thing to consider before adding anything else to your tank is 'The Conscientious Marine Aquarist' By Robert Fenner

I'm not trying to be harsh, I just want to make sure you get yourself onto the right path. Welcome to the site

 

[Samhain]

1 fish per 10 gallons? I've been readin 1 fish per 5 gallons with the possibility of increasing to 1 to 3 if you have a very well established tank.

I do have to narrow the list down further. This is just the first run. The garden eel and jawfish are top on the list thought.

You can do more, but that doesn't mean you should. Overcrowding is really stressful to the fish, much like cramming a family of 6 into a hotel room with one bed and one bathroom. While the tank is new (in the first year), I would stick to the 1/10 rule. If everything is going well then, you could reasonably consider adding a couple more fish.

 

[Powrsurg]

Also, damsels are very agressive and if you leave them in there and they do survive the cycle they will harass (and possibly kill) any fish you add later unless that fish is super agressive.

Reading up on the fish is the funnest part. I'm really in no rush to buy more at this stage as I'm weighing my options on what kind of tank I ultimately want to have.

Your right about the damsel especially the Four Striped Damsel. The Yellow tailed Blue and the Blue Devil are pretty docile. The striped one is nasty. Lol

 

[little_fish]

Actually all the damsels really nasty, those levels of meanest are relative to each other. Also I wouldnt suggest getting a garden eel. They are very challenging to keep and do best in a dedicated species only tank. They wouldnt do well in a reef setting. But if you really want an eel, a snowflake eel might do ok. Be sure to add the snowflake last other wise you increase the risk of him eating the other fish.

 

[Slimkasey]

I've checked into the Garden eel myself, cool little critters, I've read they are a little on the delicate side, so let your water establish, and they do get very long for their size, so be sure there is a very deep bed of sand for them.

Happy New Year!

 

[BL1]

Not sure if you've read this yet but, it's a good article on the husbandry of garden eels
Aquarium Fish: A Detailed look at the Home Aquarium Husbandry of the Spotted Garden Eel — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

And another good article from someone who has kept many species of damsels.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/5/fish

 

[Slimkasey]

Thanks BL1, that is an amazing article.

Happy New Year.

 

[BL1]

Thanks BL1, that is an amazing article.

Happy New Year.

Not a problem, always happy to help :)

 

[FishyReef]

You might also check Craigslist list for live rock or dry rock options - I just found a post in my area for 65lb of live rock (now dry) for $80 -- seems like a pretty good deal, about 15-20lb more than I could get online for about $10-$30 less! I agree that using mostly dry rock with some live rock to get the curing process started is the cheaper way to go!