daugherty
part time reefer
thats a good idea
155 gallon nightmare?
- Thread starter Picasso
- Start date
thats a good idea
He/She was supposed to. When he/she didn't, he/she broke the terms of the contract (to seal the aquarium with aquarium-safe silicone). That means that person is responsible to cover all damages.
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Picasso
Seahorse Whisperer
Ok, update:
The glass company called back and put me on a 3-way conversation with her, the manager of the local glass company, the representative from CRL and me. CRL is saying that they don't know if the product is safe for tanks or not, they haven't tested it. This is a new formula that they switched to in the middle of last year and they aren't recommending it for tanks but they don't know about any adverse effects from using it in tanks either. I told her about my 3 conversations with her company. They told me that the silicone is "toxic to fish" and that my tank is ruined. The CRL person said she "doesn't know what I'm talking about, they would never make such claims on a product that hasn't been tested." My local glass person says they would remove the silicone with a razor and replace it with silicone that I provide them but they can't guarantee that work because it's not their product.
My local glass company person said, while I was on the phone, that the new label says nothing at all about not being safe for aquariums. The CRL person acknowledged that the label does not mention anything about aquariums because they haven't tested it and they won't comment on it. So, it sounds like my gripe is with CRL. 3 times I called them, 3 times their people said this product is "toxic to fish" and when I told them it is common knowledge that mildew resistant silicone is a problem they said it hasn't been verified. Evidently, they changed their product in the middle of last year and did not change their label to reflect that. I feel like I need to follow through on a lawsuit with CRL unless they label their product properly. Yuck.
Catherine
The glass company called back and put me on a 3-way conversation with her, the manager of the local glass company, the representative from CRL and me. CRL is saying that they don't know if the product is safe for tanks or not, they haven't tested it. This is a new formula that they switched to in the middle of last year and they aren't recommending it for tanks but they don't know about any adverse effects from using it in tanks either. I told her about my 3 conversations with her company. They told me that the silicone is "toxic to fish" and that my tank is ruined. The CRL person said she "doesn't know what I'm talking about, they would never make such claims on a product that hasn't been tested." My local glass person says they would remove the silicone with a razor and replace it with silicone that I provide them but they can't guarantee that work because it's not their product.
My local glass company person said, while I was on the phone, that the new label says nothing at all about not being safe for aquariums. The CRL person acknowledged that the label does not mention anything about aquariums because they haven't tested it and they won't comment on it. So, it sounds like my gripe is with CRL. 3 times I called them, 3 times their people said this product is "toxic to fish" and when I told them it is common knowledge that mildew resistant silicone is a problem they said it hasn't been verified. Evidently, they changed their product in the middle of last year and did not change their label to reflect that. I feel like I need to follow through on a lawsuit with CRL unless they label their product properly. Yuck.
Catherine
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Picasso
Seahorse Whisperer
The silicone expert for CRL is on vacation. We are waiting to talk with him on Monday. Any suggestions? Should I still go after my glass shop? Should I do research about their product? Now I want 2 things, 1. How can I make CRL/ Glass shop responsible for using the proper labeling and use of this product. 2. How can I fix my tank in such a way that I can be sure of the safety of my environment for my horses?
YUCK
YUCK
As long as CRL does testing and verifies it is able to be used aquarium safe, then I wouldn't worry. You really can't go after them at this point as they are discussing it openly with you.
For your first question (#1), you cannot do anything until they say they absolutely won't label the prodcut/test it.
For question #2, I would personally start the tank off with a rather cheap fish/some LR from your 75g: Something that you are not worried about losing, and if that survives, then I would assume it is safe. Continually check your chemistry in the tank too. The aquarium-safe silicone is like $12. And since the guy is scraping it off, I would imagine you should be fine.
Wait until Monday and see what the representative has to say. If he/she doesn't, then I would follow that up with a lawsuit. Although, I have a feeling that a lawsuit may not bother a corporation like CRL.
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daugherty
part time reefer
GE type1 is a safe silicone
Picasso
Seahorse Whisperer
JohnDoe, I looked for those words on their site but couldn't find them. Could you send the link? I think I better start collecting information in case we need it for litigation.
Thanks so much for your help!
Catherine
Ok... I feel a little stupid... was from another site. C.R. Laurence CRL 33S Tan Silicone Sealant | 33ST
I will search for something on CRL's site though...
And glad to help (even if I don't help). :grumble:
I actually just read through what it says on their web-site. Not recommended for use on concrete, marble, limestone, lead coated surfaces, submerged joints (swimming pools)...That should be a blatant give away to NOT use it in an aquarium (SUBMERGED JOINT).
I will search for something on CRL's site though...
And glad to help (even if I don't help). :grumble:
I actually just read through what it says on their web-site. Not recommended for use on concrete, marble, limestone, lead coated surfaces, submerged joints (swimming pools)...That should be a blatant give away to NOT use it in an aquarium (SUBMERGED JOINT).
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daugherty
part time reefer
call them and ask if it is safe for potable water
meshman10
"YA CANT FIX STUPID"
make your life easier and less stressfull, let the glass company fix it (as you stated they are willing)..pic up a coulple tube's and move on.BUT at the end of the day yer glass company still did no homework on what they put in your tank HAVEING BEEN REPEATIDLY WARNED..If I were you I would watch the prosess..:twocents:
tankedchemist
Reef enthusiast
Ok, so exactly which kind of CLR silicone did he use? Because this one (http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/s...pID=560&History=39324:330:511:524&ModelID=560) is one component sealant (meaning, no mildew additives) and says it is food safe. Check out the fine print on the "additional product info" line.
In addition, acid cannot etch glass. Base etches glass. I would guess that scraping with a razor and washing thoroughly with a base-- sodium hydroxide or something, diluted-- would probably remove any acidic residue. Follow up with several water rinses, and allow to dry before sealing.
In addition, acid cannot etch glass. Base etches glass. I would guess that scraping with a razor and washing thoroughly with a base-- sodium hydroxide or something, diluted-- would probably remove any acidic residue. Follow up with several water rinses, and allow to dry before sealing.
tankedchemist
Reef enthusiast
I totally just realized you already answered that question.
C, I think this sealant is fine. it's food safe, one component, nd it says " CRL 33S is USDA approved for incidental food contact. CRL 33S is Certified by NSF to Standard 51 - Plastic Materials and Components used in Food Equipment"
edit: ok after looking at it again, I realize that all of their sealants are called "33S".... so what you really need to know is the product number. They should have a shipping invoice where it lists the product number. Here's the link with a correlation between product number and if it has mildew crap in it or not: http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/s...pID=560&History=39324:330:511:524&ModelID=560
C, I think this sealant is fine. it's food safe, one component, nd it says " CRL 33S is USDA approved for incidental food contact. CRL 33S is Certified by NSF to Standard 51 - Plastic Materials and Components used in Food Equipment"
edit: ok after looking at it again, I realize that all of their sealants are called "33S".... so what you really need to know is the product number. They should have a shipping invoice where it lists the product number. Here's the link with a correlation between product number and if it has mildew crap in it or not: http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/s...pID=560&History=39324:330:511:524&ModelID=560
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project5k
Reef enthusiast
sounds to me like the liability lies with the one that agreed to do the job, he agreed to use aquarium safe, and he has not... if he had used the correct materials, they would say it on the label... by not doing what he agreed to do, he is now responcible.. not the silicone manuf.
meshman10
"YA CANT FIX STUPID"
that's exactly what iI'm saying, let them reseal it and watch them do it if possible..
Picasso
Seahorse Whisperer
I've already told them that I want it redone regardless of what the "silicone product expert" says on monday. I think I'm going to ask for my money back and do it myself, that way I KNOW it's done right. Tanked, I'm interested in what you said. I didn't realize they were all called 33s. The local glass company claims they have used this product on tanks since they reformulated it and there has been no problems. I'm wondering if they actually used the "food safe" version. How can I tell? If I fill it with water, is there a test I can do?
Thanks so much for your input, I'm really lost here.
C
Thanks so much for your input, I'm really lost here.
C
VAreef
Reefing newb
I'm with Tanked. The job they did is most likely fine. If it is 100% silicone they used. The anti mildew junk is the problem. If they used that I would be leary. I couldn't imagine them using that though. I tend to think he is being honest in that he has put it on many aquariums before with no problems. For a court case they can show up with any tube of silicone they want and say it's ok. You would need documentation other than "he said" to prove the type used. Sometimes small businesses will settle if you pay a lawyer to send them a letter demanding damages. But most likely you would have to go to court and will probably lose.
tankedchemist
Reef enthusiast
Well, the easiest thing is to go to the glass guys and ask for an invoice from when they ordered the silicone they used. that will have a product number on it. post it here and I'll figure if it's a safe one or not.
The way to test for mildewcides is to culture some mildew, and expose the silicone to the mildew, and compare cultures. it's a lot of trouble to go to without a lab at hand. Know any people that study fungi at a University near by??
The way to test for mildewcides is to culture some mildew, and expose the silicone to the mildew, and compare cultures. it's a lot of trouble to go to without a lab at hand. Know any people that study fungi at a University near by??
PRC
Stop Quoting Me!
I'm a business owner myself. Your issue is deifnitely with the person contracted to seal the tank, knowing you only by your threads that you post, I would bet my bottom dollar that you made sure to tell him aquarium safe silicone. And I'm sure you also made it clear to him that if he didn't use aquarium safe silicone that your livestock would die.
It's not your responsibility to prove that the silicone is aquarium safe. That was part of the contract. You should not be responsible for purchasing silicone for him, unless he's going to take the cost off of the invoice.
You should also not have to deal with the manufacturer in any way. Bottom line is, if he could have shown you a tube of silicone that said aquarium safe, he would have. They don't know for sure, and neither do you. That's a shame because you seem like a very nice lady.
the guy tried to cheap out on the silicone, he isn't able to confirm that the silicone is aquarium safe. That's his responsibility. Again, that's part of the contract. As far as the manufacturer goes, if they intended to use it for aquariums they would hacve tested it.
Here's what he doesn't understand...How much money people have invested in reef tanks when they're full of corals and livestock. All you need to do is make him aware of that, let him know in no uncertain terms that if things start to die, he will be in court.
What sucks, is that if he would have listened to you, he wouldn't be in this situation, and you would be a happy reefer.
RULE #1 of Business- If you treat somebody well, you might be lucky if they tell 1 person, and that 1 person turns into a customer. If you treat somebody bad, they'll tell everyone they know, and none of them will be your customer.
It's not your responsibility to prove that the silicone is aquarium safe. That was part of the contract. You should not be responsible for purchasing silicone for him, unless he's going to take the cost off of the invoice.
You should also not have to deal with the manufacturer in any way. Bottom line is, if he could have shown you a tube of silicone that said aquarium safe, he would have. They don't know for sure, and neither do you. That's a shame because you seem like a very nice lady.
the guy tried to cheap out on the silicone, he isn't able to confirm that the silicone is aquarium safe. That's his responsibility. Again, that's part of the contract. As far as the manufacturer goes, if they intended to use it for aquariums they would hacve tested it.
Here's what he doesn't understand...How much money people have invested in reef tanks when they're full of corals and livestock. All you need to do is make him aware of that, let him know in no uncertain terms that if things start to die, he will be in court.
What sucks, is that if he would have listened to you, he wouldn't be in this situation, and you would be a happy reefer.
RULE #1 of Business- If you treat somebody well, you might be lucky if they tell 1 person, and that 1 person turns into a customer. If you treat somebody bad, they'll tell everyone they know, and none of them will be your customer.
Picasso
Seahorse Whisperer
Ok, Update.
The glass guy called the manufacturer and their silicone expert, the local glass guy and I had a 3 way conversation. The silicone manufacturer guy said that they do not put anti-fungal or anti-mildew silicone. This product is considered safe for food contact like if you use it to seal around a sink. His recommendation was to fill the tank with water and check the ph. He believes that there won't be any problem. The local glass guy seemed concerned and agreed to do basically whatever I want. If I want him to remove the silicone and replace it with something I provide he would or if I wanted to do it myself then he would refund my money. He (local guy) asked the silicone guy all kinds of questions while I was on the phone.
My general attitude while dealing with screwed up situations is to be reasonable at first and give the people a chance to make the mistake right. We all make mistakes. If he didn't handle the situation well then I would raise hell or get a lawyer whatever is necessary.
So, the silicone guy thinks this is ok but he can't guarantee it. The glass guy swears they have used this on all kinds of tanks and never had a problem. It's going to be about 7 months before I'm ready to set this tank up so I could just fill it with water for a while and stick a pump in to keep the water moving. I told the local guy I would think about it and call him back in a few days.
humph.
The glass guy called the manufacturer and their silicone expert, the local glass guy and I had a 3 way conversation. The silicone manufacturer guy said that they do not put anti-fungal or anti-mildew silicone. This product is considered safe for food contact like if you use it to seal around a sink. His recommendation was to fill the tank with water and check the ph. He believes that there won't be any problem. The local glass guy seemed concerned and agreed to do basically whatever I want. If I want him to remove the silicone and replace it with something I provide he would or if I wanted to do it myself then he would refund my money. He (local guy) asked the silicone guy all kinds of questions while I was on the phone.
My general attitude while dealing with screwed up situations is to be reasonable at first and give the people a chance to make the mistake right. We all make mistakes. If he didn't handle the situation well then I would raise hell or get a lawyer whatever is necessary.
So, the silicone guy thinks this is ok but he can't guarantee it. The glass guy swears they have used this on all kinds of tanks and never had a problem. It's going to be about 7 months before I'm ready to set this tank up so I could just fill it with water for a while and stick a pump in to keep the water moving. I told the local guy I would think about it and call him back in a few days.
humph.
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