Stumpped!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by sagent3000, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    i am at the point now where i am going to give it up because nothing is making any sense now. i can not get anything to stay alive the fish die the same day they all end up laying on the bottom of hte tank almost like they are sufficating.

    Salinity = 1.026
    pH = 8.4
    NO2 = 0
    NO3 = 0
    NH3/NH4 = 0
    temp 78-83

    can anyone give me any suggestions on what to do?
     
    sagent3000, Mar 26, 2006
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  2. sagent3000

    grunt

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    Calm Down Do Not Throw Your Tank Out The Window!!

    Hey Man I Just Started 2 Months Ago With A 55 Banger And I Got Like 40 Pounds Of Live Rock, 2 Inches Of Live Sand, One Conch, 2 Green Chromis, 2 Hermits And One Mexican Turbo And Let Me Tell You It's Been Weird. My Nitrates Were A Little High For Like A Month And Now Stable, My Ammonia Was A .03 Till Today Since I Finally Gave Up And Bought Ammo Lock To Force It Down Eaven Though I Eaven Have A 125 Super Skimmer Which Is Over Kill For My Tank Were It Was Nasty For Saltwater And The Lighting Was A 130w Only With Salinity In Check. I Don't Know How All Of My Stuff Are Still Alive. So There Has To Be Some Where There In The Lines Where You Are Not Acclimating The Fish Right Or Something. Are U Atleast Making A Hole In The Bag And Letting It Float Around For Like 20 Minutes? And Like I Have Read Before Are You Turning The Light's Off When U Do So Till Like The Next Day? There Has To Be Something With That Or Some Foul Stuff Going On In That Water That Is Shoking Them The Hell Up Cause My Stock Have Been Through Some Nasty Conditions. I'm New At This And I Hope We Can Help Each Other Out Some How
    Jorge
     
    grunt, Mar 26, 2006
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  3. sagent3000

    jhnrb

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    -Ph is too high - lower to 8.2
    -Salinity should be 1.023 average
    -Temp swings should be limited to 2 degrees in 24 hours
    -Do not add fresh water directly to the system unless it is dripped
    -For water makeup, mix up your new salt water ahead of time and airiate and mix vigorously for 24 to 48 hours at the same temperature as the main. top off system let mix with fresh makeup water and then do the water change with the fresh salt water. pour in and mix slowly.

    If you are doing the above and you still have a problem, your system is contaminated, or you may have an electrical stray voltages, add a ground bar to the water, they are about 15 dollars. this will bleed off any stray voltages. any fumes such as cigarette smoke, air fresheners, cooking odors, sprays etc will contaiminate the tank water. if you are adding additives cease all additions and just do water changes. test your oxygen and make sure you are near saturation. test for silica, copper, dkh/hardness.

    if your system is not at least 6 months old you may be experiancing new tank syndrome. your biological bed may have crashed. do not add anything live to your system until you can maintain parameters for at least 3 months. add only clean up crew. see helpful articles on page one and start with the basics and reestablish your system. hope something here helps. good luck.
     
    jhnrb, Mar 26, 2006
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  4. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    i am STILL having the same problem with ONE exception my corals are doing fine.

    CORALS
    green star
    frogspawn
    toadstool
    button

    INVERTS
    4 - trubos snails
    2 - bubble anonemoes

    NO fish will survive every fish i put in dies with in 5 hours

    salinity - 1.021
    8.3 - pH
    NO2 - 0
    NO3 - 0
    ammonia - 0
    seachem reef salt
    15 gallon water changes every sunday
    drip acclimate 2 hours

    does any one have any clue as to what i need to do?????
     
    sagent3000, Apr 3, 2006
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  5. sagent3000

    ReefWannabe

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    are you getting thsese fish from the same place? If so stop. Second are you acclimating them correctly? They could be going into shock from the store to your water. Check to see what the stores water is like. They should be able to tell you info on their tanks parameters.
     
    ReefWannabe, Apr 4, 2006
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  6. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    i am getting the fish from different stores

    i was under the impression that dripping was the only way to acclimate.

    the stores all have a salinity of 1.021 temp of 78 my temp is 78-81
     
    sagent3000, Apr 4, 2006
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  7. sagent3000

    jhnrb

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    Is there anything in your system that is not from natural salt water, have you added any rocks, slate, etc, not reef, but rocks, lava rocks, or anything else that is not marine in origin. also are you adding anything to the system in the form of additives?. your pH should not be that high with a salinity at 1.021. I still suspect something is amist with your water parameters. try to get your temperature down to 78 with a max. of 80 in 24 hours. any aresol sprays used in the house i.e. air cleaners, sented candles, dusting spray, windex on the aquarium, carpet ceaner, etc will contaminate the system. is all of your equipment, water barrels, buckets, and equipment cleaned and steril used for no other purpose?. The problem with anemones is that if they sting the fish the fish will die. are the bubble tips stationary or moving around. This is a process of elemination. I doubt I can determine the problem from here, but you surly can by elimiating each possible cause. Hopefully something ive posted will help. When do you add fish and when do you do water changes.
    In order for me to help any further you will need to take water tests in the morning 1st thing just before lights on and at night just before lights out for:
    Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, co2, oxygen, calcium, pH, dkh, magnesium, copper,
    temperature. provide a list of everything you put into the system, food, additives, when and amounts, specifically provide a specific list of how you provide makeup fresh water and how adminstered to the system, and how you prepare your fresh salt water for water changes, list all equipment, and procedures and provide a list of all equipment that is running in your system, what is near the tank, above the tank, next to the tank, and what is the traffic like infront of tank, tapping on glass, loud noises, etc. once you can provide all this I may have an idea or two. good luck and hope something here helps you investigate what is going on. i would recommend you only add one clown fish to your system and nothing else unless you can keep um alive for three months. do you have anything in the system that can sting the fish, tube worm, anemone yes, or anything else. Are the fish rushing and hiting the tank walls, jumping or acting strange when you put them in. do you have a cat, does cat get on top of tank. i had one years ago that would let its paw dangle into the tank and hood 1st fish came by, i had all angles in the fo system. anyway look for the obvious and the not so obvious. sit back and ponder what is going on and try to perform the basics to illiminate things down. good luck.

    oh and one last thought, check out the pH of the lfs and set yours to the same level or not more than a point off. pH should be 8.2 max and hover between 8.1 to 8.2. also when you add fish you need to turn off the lights except to the atinics or subdue the lights until the next day to give the fish a chance to settle in. are there any pumps, that could suck the fish or any heaters unshielded in the sytem. boy. if all of the stuff i mentioned is good then you must have something leaching out into the system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2006
    jhnrb, Apr 4, 2006
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  8. sagent3000

    jhnrb

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    Ok now lets try this from another angle as follows: A small percentage of the marine fish thar are caught in the philippines are still being captured with the use of cyanide. Cyanide has a delated effect on the fish that can cause them to die suddenly, a few days after arrival. Cyanide laden fish tend to have intense colorations. New fish added tot he tank can also die from unusaual stree caused from capture and transport (SHOCK) Many of the new additions are also carriers of disease which expoains why a new outbreak of ick or another disease sometimes occurs just after a recent additons. If several new fish have died without a visible sign of the cause, it is likely that you have a problem with water conditions. Ammonia, Nitrites, and the biological filter, overcrowding, temperature and aeration. Remember, if you have a new non established tank, adding just one fish can affect the biological balance of the aquarium. Gradually space the additons of any new fish by several days to several weeks. Overfeeding is another probkem. the uneaten food decays, cuading a rapid buildup of bacteria, depleting oxygen and eventually suffocating the fish. If the fish appeared fine yesterday but are dead today, the problem is most likely toxicity caused from overfeeding or other sources. hope this might help.
     
    jhnrb, Apr 4, 2006
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  9. sagent3000

    minireefer

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    John has posted some really good help so I am not going to add to it.Also you said you are getting your fish from different shops.The thang most shop use the same centeral supplier so basicly the fish are coming from the same place.The shipping will cost you a little more,but maybe a tank bred clown from say a good vendoe like liveaquaria.com might be an option.This elimate the possiblity of getting unhealthy fish from LFS
    http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=1500
    Hope something work out.
     
    minireefer, Apr 4, 2006
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  10. sagent3000

    ReefWannabe

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    also where your buying your fish from should have some type of garauntee on them if they die so fast. Maybe take some water to them to see if they can test for other things?? Cant be something to horrible if the coral survive but the fish dont?? Doesnt make much sense.
     
    ReefWannabe, Apr 4, 2006
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  11. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    my pH is always gonig to be 8.3 because i use seachem reef salt. the salt works well for corals before my crash my LPS did well cause the salt had high levels of calcium and alkalinty and stronium

    the tips are stationary they bubbles are no bigger than a 50cent piece. even the clowns died

    1. the salt is mixed in a seperate 20 gallon tank. RO/DI water is added and the salt is added and stirred with a powerhead that ONLY is used in that tank

    2. all my additives are seachem and i only add iodine and ammino acids

    3. i take the water out into a 5 gallon paint bucket that i bought just for takin water out and putting into the big tank. and i have two seperate buckets for taking the water from the big tank to dispose of. the tank sits in a corner by its self i live alone with a couple of women in and out but no tapping on the glass or other hthinks like that

    i know there has to be its something about the water that will not allow the fish to survive but corals do okay the xenia i bought a week ago has doubled in size the frogspwan is expanding and looking good. so i would not doubt that somehting is wrong but i am stumped as to what it is
     
    sagent3000, Apr 4, 2006
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  12. sagent3000

    jhnrb

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    You need to check your salinity by percentage. should be 33 to 35% or 33 to 35 ppt. about 1.022 at 78*F. Note that the specific gravity of seawater decreases as water temperature increases.

    Next concentrate on the iodine additions. natural sea water is about 60 ppb.

    You said you were also adding amino acids. what is it called.

    I am glad your corals are doing well. at least that is something. Your Ph is still a bit high should be 8.2. at 8.3 you do not have much room to increase due to evaporation.
     
    jhnrb, Apr 5, 2006
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  13. sagent3000

    rarecoral21

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    that a lot of light do you have a fan or a chiller if not i bet you temp is all over the place as this happens you will lose more water then you should you want things to happen slow not fast also what kind of chem are your adding and also how do you alkmate these fish and no just because you use tha mix dont mean that your ph will be always be 8.3 lol hew in the hell told you that the devil just a joke bro
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2006
    rarecoral21, Apr 6, 2006
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  14. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    sagent3000, Apr 7, 2006
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  15. sagent3000

    amonya

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    Can you list whats died in the aqurium?How fast did you stock the aqurium?Do you have any predators in the tank?What do you feed the fish and how much?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2006
    amonya, Apr 7, 2006
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  16. sagent3000

    pottsj42

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    try changing your water every two weeks.
     
    pottsj42, Apr 7, 2006
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  17. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    DEATHS
    Fish
    1 Maroon Clown
    2 Tomato Clowns
    2 Yellow Eyed Tang
    1 Strawberry Psudeo
    2 Lawnmower Blenny
    2 Yellow Tang
    1 Arrow Crab

    Corals
    1 Giant cup mushroom
    1 Hammer (REPLACED)
    1 Frogspawn (REPLACED)

    I don't get a chance to feed the fish becuase they are dead in the mornig when i wake up.
     
    sagent3000, Apr 8, 2006
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  18. sagent3000

    ReefWannabe

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    you even lost an arrow crab? Well so far from the list, a few of thsoe are harder first fish anyways. But I dont remember if your hermits or snails survived???

    From this point, it would probably be easier to start over and recheck everything, including your rock and sand??
     
    ReefWannabe, Apr 8, 2006
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  19. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    i forgot all about my crabs :bounce:

    the red leg and the blue leg all died
    the snails live when i shift the sand during my water change i realize that i have more snails than i remember

    i am going to do that soon as i close on my new house i am getting a 160 reef ready i was thinking about taking the sand and rocks with me though. i was going to start the tank funning and have NO lights until about 3 months give my coraline time to grow
     
    sagent3000, Apr 8, 2006
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  20. sagent3000

    rarecoral21

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    start over u did something really wrong good luck this times i whould wait 2-3week this time because what ever u have in your tank it shound not be there
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2006
    rarecoral21, Apr 8, 2006
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