Hello All! New to the site, and to saltwater...

[matthew1048]

Thank yall for all the advice on the cycling!!!

I'd like to use fish...but I'm a little gun-shy about it...I'd hate to kill them. I'm kinda riding a fence on whether or not to just go ahead and get a live rock, basically because I know I'll end up getting one sometime anyway. I figure I'd be just as well off to buy one starting out so I wouldn't have to re-situate and re-cycle my tank.

Several people here in this post and in other posts/articles I've read talk about how stinky curing a live rock can be. That bothers me a little...I'm guessing that by what I've read that the LR will stink up my whole house. Is this true?!?

A fellow here in the post, told me about Aquarium Fish: Tropical Freshwater Fish and Saltwater Fish for Home Aquariums, and I've found some rock there that I think might be right up my ally. Here's a link to it - Fiji Live Rock: Select Premium Fiji Live Rock from Drs. Foster & Smith Have any of yall used this rock? If so, how's the quality? I've always been gun-shy of online shopping.

I know this is turning into a book (AND I'M SORRY!!!) but what about the light requirements for a LR? On the sight it lists the Light Requirements as "Medium". So what is that suppose to mean? I mean, how many WPG would be sufficient and would I be better off to overshoot somewhat on the minimum WPG required?

I've also read an article that recommended raising the rock up off the substrate slighty by using cut pieces of PVC. Is this the proper way to do it and do yall recommend to raising the LR up off the substrate?

I sure do appreciate all yall's help!!! And just to warn yall, I'm sure I'll come up with some questions about filters, skimmers, and lights here pretty soon!!! LOL.

 

[bobby]

If you want a fish for cycling you can try a chromis there hardy and not really that agressive. If you have more than one they might school also. I however have had very good luck with my damsel, hes a sargent mayjor, very timid and not agressive at all.

 

[yote]

Ive heard 3 to 5 watts per gallon.For just fish and live lrock you can get by with light strips that come with most new tanks.
I am running 192 watts on my 30 which is right about 6.4 wpg ( if im thinking right).Im gonna be running 432 watts on my 55. Maybe that'll give you an idea any way.
If your going to cycle with a fish,Blue Chromis would be my choice.
You can also do like I done and just add a little rock at a time.It took me 2 months to get 35 to 40 pounds of rock into my 30.Just make sure that if your getting it from LFS that it had been cured and that they put at least enough water in the bag to cover the rock.That you minimize the die off.

 

[Bifferwine]

You have yellow tailed blue damsels right? Before Yote convinces you to go fishing for your fish, I'll say that in my experience the yellow tails are not that aggressive as far as damsels go. In fact, my yellow tail is less aggressive than my chromis-es.

 

[Adrastos]

Trust me... Damsels don't die. You might be hoping they do.. wanting them to finally die because you can't get the evil (bleeps) out of your tank... and they keep on living. I had one so evil I bet he would have lived in a freshwater tank just to tick me off!!!

 

[yote]

The only fish I lost so far was a yellow watchman that my 7 year old son picked out. It died because a yellow tail demon killed it,within about 1/2 a second of the watchman be turned loose.

 

[reeffreak]

Go ahead and use liverock,if your afraid of it smelling buy the fully cured version.They should not stink up the home,but if you buy cure liverock online there could be some dieoff from shipping time but not as much as un-cured rock.

I don't trust my LFS...so if I do buy liverock from them and they tell me its fully cured I smell it to make sure it smells fresh or just a faint odor.

unforginately you can't do that online so call and make sure the rock is fully cured or at least Pre-cured.

 

[JellyMan]

Damsels ehh no good, I have had good fish die, but that breed is one breed neither I nor my brother in law could kill he lived to tick me and jerm off. Went through two cycles and still lived I think it messed his mind up

 

[matthew1048]

OH BOY, OH BOY, OH BOY!!!!! I finally found a LFS in Jackson, TN today after about an hour of riding around and asking other pet shops...LOL. It's locally owned and operated, and the owner was really helpful. Although, some of the things he said didn't really make alot of sense to me...like the fact that he only tests his water about once a month. He did have a VERY good selection of fish and inverts, and they all looked pretty healthy and happy! He even showed me one of his sumps so I could get a good mental graspe on what the plumbing should generally look like.

There's a couple things that he told me that I'd like to get all of your opinions on. He said that I should use uncured rock to cycle my tank. I asked him about problems with mantis shrimp and bristle worms and the like, and he said that no matter if I bought cured or uncured rock that I would have bristle worms and that they won't harm anything. Is that true?

I also asked him for his advice on lighting...in particular, T-5 HO lights. He replied by saying that VHO's were much better. But the charts that I looked at said that T-5 HO's produced a wider light spectrum and had a longer life. On the flip side, the VHO's had more wattage. He also said that reflectors behind VHO's wouldn't make any difference. So what's more important? A wider spectrum or wattage?

I've also read that you should stock 1" of fish to 5 gallons of water. Does this include the amount of water in the sump too or is it specific to the amount of water in the main tank? In other words, in a setup that has a 50 gallon tank and a 20 gallon sump should one stock 10 inches of fish or could one get away with 14 inches due to the fact that there are 20 additional gallons of water in the system besides what is in the main tank? (I hope I worded that well enough for it to make sense!)

I can't thank yall enough for all the help!!! You all really have made this learning process much easier!!!

 

[Adrastos]

The main question now should be if you want a fish tank or a reef tank. If you go for a fish tank.. you do not need the expensive lighting (and both of those you mentioned are a pretty penny).

A fish only tank will only require (as a minimum) normal flourescent lights (still ones created for saltwater.. but regular wattage and fixtures). If you want a reef tank.. then you need the higher wattage.

for the size of the fish.. they should be more what kind of fish do you like? are they aggressive towards other species? Aggressive towards the live rock? How large will they get as adults (example: pufferfish.. they sure look cute little.. but wait till they are a few feet in length)? Also, remember that your tastes will change.. you might want to start out with lionfish tank.. then after that dies for no reason.. change your mind.

 

[matthew1048]

Well, I'm pretty sure that once I gain ALOT of experience, that I'd like to start adding corals and anemones, and convert over to a reef tank. So I'd like to save up some cash and just go ahead and by the proper lights for a reef setup instead of having to buy one set of lights now, and then a different set later.

As far as fish goes, I'd like to have an Ocellaris Clown (3.5" max size in aquarium), Blue/Green Reef Chromis (3" max size), Clown Goby, Green (1.5" max size), and a Neon Blue Goby (2" max size) if 10 inches of fish would be the max.

If one could get away with 14 inches with the aforementioned setup, then I'd like to also have a Six Line Wrasse (3" max size).

From what I've read, these fish should be well-behaved and reef safe...but of course that's just what I've read. My only concern would be putting the Clown Goby with Neon Blue Goby. The site said that Clown Goby's are peaceful but will fight with it's own kind. Does "fight with it's own kind" mean that it will fight with it's own genus or it's own species? I assumed that it meant species, and thusly figured that since the Neon Black is a different species that they would be fine. Is that true?

And thank you very much for super duper fast response!!!

 

[yote]

The guys right about the bristle worms,99.9% of the bristle worms that make it into tanks are great at helping keep things clean.Its the bright fire red ones that are bad.And yeah,you'll most likly get a few with your LR.
On the lighting,I kinda think that the spectrum would be more important for a reef set up,but i'd still factor in the wattage to. The right spectrium aint worth a flip if its not bright enough. To my redneck way of thinking any how.
5 gallons of water is still 5 gallons of water weather its in your display or sump.So if you got a 50 gal display with a 20 gal sump,,you got 70 gallon to play with.

 

[matthew1048]

LOL YOTE!!! I'm glad to know I ain't the only redneck thinking summa'ma'gun! And thanks for the advice on water thing, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure.

 

[Adrastos]

That is the other tricky part with picking fish... is that you never really know how one will interact with the other. What Amy and I did when we were picking fish for our tank (when it was a FO) we picked one "display fish".. meaning.. the fish we wanted as the focal point.. then we added fish around that one fish. Instead of looking it as an entire tank.. what one fish do you want/think will truely stand out? Build your tank around that one fish.

 

[matthew1048]

That's a great idea Adrastos! Thanks for the great tip!!!

 

[Adrastos]

No problem! I'm just glad I could help!

 

[matthew1048]

I wonder if anemone, along with other inverts, count towards that "1 inch of fish per 5 gallons" or does that apply to fish only? I assume that since that 1inch of fish per 5 gallons rule is needed for sufficient waste removal etc., and that since anemones and other inverts produce waste, that the rule applies to them also. Is this true???

 

[bobby]

I dont agree with the 1" per 5 gals, for example a powder blue gets up to 9" in and needs a 125 or larger to be happy. The stocking rate only goes for the water in the tank not the tank and sump.

 

[Bifferwine]

Stocking rates don't really hold true. You can stock your tank with as many fish as your system can handle. That is, you can have 20 very small fish, or 2 really big fish, but either way, if their waste overloads the tank you will have problems. I have 13 fish in my 55 gallon (plus 20 gallon sump), some might say it's overstocked, it may be. It really depends more on the kind of fish that you put in and how much live rock you have, and if you can accomodate their habitat needs.

As for the curing of the live rock, even cured it's still live, so mantis shrimp (bad!) and bristleworms (good!) can, and will, show up in your cured rock. Even corals and mushrooms and feather duster worms will survive the curing process. I'd say go ahead and cycle with the rock if you can, it's stinky, but an efficient way to do it.

As for lighting, I have T5s and I love them. From everything I've read, I'd have to guess they're better than VHOs. But I've never had VHOs so I can't say for sure.

 

[matthew1048]

I don't what I'd do if y'all weren't around to set me straight!!! :mrgreen: I surely do appreciate all yall's help!!!

That makes good sense Bobby, I've been trying to watch the minimun size limit. And it's good to know something on the whole sump thing!!! Every now and then I can come up with some hair-brained ideas!!! LOL.

And thanks Biff!! I will defenitely be using LR to cycle the tank. Now I'm gonna read up on this ole mantis shrimp and find something out about 'em! As for stocking, I'm gonna just play it safe and go with a bare minimum to start off, then if I feel comfortable with it, and I think the setup can handle it, I MIGHT out a few fmore fish in the tank...but might and few are heavily stressed. I suppose I should do more research on the lights and see what I can turn up...I agree with you, from what I've read the T5's sound better than VHO's...that's why the fish shop guy confused me. I think it might have something to do with the fact that he doesn't sell T5's...and therefore he's gonna push what he does have, so folks won't run somewhere else and buy other items...no matter which item is better!!!

Again, thanks yall so much for your help!!!!