Aqua Boy's 11 Gallon Nano Tank Thread

[Bifferwine]

Ugh. I don't think you're reading what I'm typing. Ich is going to be the norm in the vast majority of tanks -- but a healthy fish will not show symptoms -- it will not have white spots, and it will act perfectly healthy. The ich will have no impact on their life whatsoever. There is a difference between being a CARRIER and being IMPACTED. A carrier fish can be perfectly healthy, and you would never know the difference between it and a fish that is completely devoid of ich. So if your fish is carrying the parasite -- so what? You can't see it, the fish can't feel it, the parasite can't make them sick. If the fish actually gets sick from ich, then it is due to other reasons -- crowded tank, fighting, poor water quality, etc.

 

[Aqua Boy]

Why treat it? Because it is most likely going to manifest into the other fish until the life cycle is broken. I will go ahead and stop here for a couple days and get back to the post for status.:bowdown: Thank you all.

 

[Bifferwine]

You don't understand how saltwater ich works. Try re-reading what I wrote. It will NOT manifest on the other fish if they are healthy! Ich is OPPORTUNISTIC. It cannot make a fish sick unless it's given an opportunity -- if the fish is already compromised or stressed.

 

[yote]

The reason for my comment,is that some types of fish will stress even in an extremely low bio-load tank.
For reference,A Blue Regal tang that is one inch long would not put much bio- load at all on a tank in the 20 gallon size range.But that same fish is extremely active and does a lot of swimming,so they really need more like a 6ft long tank to be comfortable and not feel cramped for space.When they feel cramped,they get stressed (just like us).Then the stress compromises their immune systems and lets diseases get started.

 

[Picasso]

Why treat it? Because it is most likely going to manifest into the other fish until the life cycle is broken. I will go ahead and stop here for a couple days and get back to the post for status.:bowdown: Thank you all.

I guess this ich stuff is a big deal for freshwater. If you've got healthy fish you won't have problems with ich. It's an opportunistic infection.

C

 

[Aqua Boy]

Ugh. I don't think you're reading what I'm typing. Ich is going to be the norm in the vast majority of tanks -- but a healthy fish will not show symptoms -- it will not have white spots, and it will act perfectly healthy. The ich will have no impact on their life whatsoever. There is a difference between being a CARRIER and being IMPACTED. A carrier fish can be perfectly healthy, and you would never know the difference between it and a fish that is completely devoid of ich.

I am hearing you. What I mean by ich is not when it is visually dormant. I refer to it as actively attacking the fish and becoming an issue with spotover. I hear you saying if it is not affecting why act. I am seeking prevention for/of the other fish....so I don't make the unworldly choice of flushing and getting hammered again. I am willing to bet that in 2-3 days ich will be attacking the other fish. The water temperature is staying 78 and the water is perfect. The fish do not appear stressed and are interacting fine right now. Should I turn up the heat to 82 slowly?

 

[Aqua Boy]

The reason for my comment,is that some types of fish will stress even in an extremely low bio-load tank.
For reference,A Blue Regal tang that is one inch long would not put much bio- load at all on a tank in the 20 gallon size range.But that same fish is extremely active and does a lot of swimming,so they really need more like a 6ft long tank to be comfortable and not feel cramped for space.When they feel cramped,they get stressed (just like us).Then the stress compromises their immune systems and lets diseases get started.

Gotcha...thanks for clarifying.

 

[Aqua Boy]

I guess this ich stuff is a big deal for freshwater. If you've got healthy fish you won't have problems with ich. It's an opportunistic infection.

C

Nice edit....LOL

 

[Bifferwine]

Can you read? I guess this ich stuff is a big deal for freshwater. If you've got healthy fish you won't have problems with ich. It's an opportunistic infection.

He can read and write, but apparently reading comprehension is a whole other issue...

Look at it this way. To a normal, healthy person, getting a cold is not a big deal. We lay down, drink fluids, perhaps take some Tylenol PM or whatever. Most of us move on with our lives and get by just fine in a few days.

To someone that is already immuno-compromised or sick, or stressed, a simple cold can turn serious very quickly. The common cold can kill someone that is HIV positive, for instance.

Do you live in a bubble because you have a deathly fear of the common cold? No! There's no way to avoid cold viruses -- they are everywhere. But if you are healthy, you won't get very sick from a cold. You are probably carrying the virus and don't even realize it.

Same thing with fish and ich. Your tang in an 11 gallon tank is the equivalent of someone with full-blown AIDS being exposed to a cold virus. It will very likely kill them!

If your tang was in a large tank, say 75 gallons or more, it would have just gone about its merry way, probably never even being impacted by the ich.

Ich, like the common cold to people, is something that all fish are exposed to. The healthy ones never get sick from it, and never show symptoms. Only the sickly, mistreated fish get sick from it.

 

[Bifferwine]

I am willing to bet that in 2-3 days ich will be attacking the other fish. The water temperature is staying 78 and the water is perfect. The fish do not appear stressed and are interacting fine right now. Should I turn up the heat to 82 slowly?

No. At 82 degrees, you will be speeding up ich's reproduction. 82 degrees is not dangerous to anything in a reef tank, let alone parasites.

If your fish are fine, and are eating, let them be! Tangs are known as ich magnets because they get sick with ich very frequently -- usually due to them being put in tanks that are too small. Your other fish are an appropriate size for your tank.

You may bet that in 2 to 3 days your fish will be covered in spots, but I would not put my money on that. Your tang got ich because it's a tang in an 11 gallon tank. Your other fish are not stressing the way the tang was stressing.

 

[Aqua Boy]

Look, I can see you guys getting frustrated with me...which is understandable. There is a delay in the posts and the questions I have might not be best asked the way I am online. If you were here it would seem more simple I suppose.

Yes, Ich is a problem for me. I not like it nor want to lose more fish. Thats the bottom line. I am sorry and will refrain from asking for help. Ich is not as simple to me to blame it directly on stress. It has SEVERAL factors and should be looked at from all of them as possibilities. It is a parasite and can attack any fish even when NOT stressed when introduced to a fish with a normally low immune system. (Just like flu and humans)

 

[Aqua Boy]

He can read and write, but apparently reading comprehension is a whole other issue...

Look at it this way. To a normal, healthy person, getting a cold is not a big deal. We lay down, drink fluids, perhaps take some Tylenol PM or whatever. Most of us move on with our lives and get by just fine in a few days.

To someone that is already immuno-compromised or sick, or stressed, a simple cold can turn serious very quickly. The common cold can kill someone that is HIV positive, for instance.

Do you live in a bubble because you have a deathly fear of the common cold? No! There's no way to avoid cold viruses -- they are everywhere. But if you are healthy, you won't get very sick from a cold. You are probably carrying the virus and don't even realize it.

Same thing with fish and ich. Your tang in an 11 gallon tank is the equivalent of someone with full-blown AIDS being exposed to a cold virus. It will very likely kill them!

If your tang was in a large tank, say 75 gallons or more, it would have just gone about its merry way, probably never even being impacted by the ich.

Ich, like the common cold to people, is something that all fish are exposed to. The healthy ones never get sick from it, and never show symptoms. Only the sickly, mistreated fish get sick from it.

Ummm....thanks for the insult especially as a moderator. Go ahead and delete my account. I really don't need to be treated like that or need to be part of a group that says ask for help but don't get it. :helm2:

 

[Bifferwine]

I think you're making it out to be a much bigger problem than it actually is. All of us here have nice tanks, and manage to live with ich in our systems. We never have to see it, and it's not hurting anything, so who cares? You're right that certain fish have normally low immune systems and are extra susceptible to it -- it's always risky to keep those kinds of fish (i.e. tangs).

Bottom line: keep your fish healthy and you will never have to worry about ich.

I had a pink tail trigger for years (his name was Tangent -- get it, Trig-Tangent-Trigonometry hahahaha -- one of my favorite fishes EVER). Every time I added a new fish to the tank, he'd get white spots on his head for a day. New additions would stress him. The white spots would go away on their own after about 24 hours, and things would be back to normal until I added another new fish. Tangent would never act funny, never act sick, and would always continue to have a happy appetite. This is the most of ich that people with healthy fish ever have to deal with. And it's not a problem.

 

[Bifferwine]

Ummm....thanks for the insult especially as a moderator. Go ahead and delete my account. I really don't need to be treated like that or need to be part of a group that says ask for help but don't get it. :helm2:

Sorry, but you've received over 50 posts of help in this thread alone. You are unwilling to read the advice and try to understand it. You seem to be very stuck in the ways of freshwater -- get over it. This is a different hobby. They are not the same.

 

[Aqua Boy]

Sorry, but you've received over 50 posts of help in this thread alone. You are unwilling to read the advice and try to understand it. You seem to be very stuck in the ways of freshwater -- get over it. This is a different hobby. They are not the same.

I have listened intelligently and asked honest questions. I was not disrespectful in any way but have had some misguided input which only offers the chance for more questions. I would have expected better from a mod. Thank you, I did learn from my hobby....best left unasked.

 

[Picasso]

Aquaboy, you were right to notice there is some frustration here because there is a delay and we probably aren't understanding your intentions when asking these questions. You won't find a nicer group of people on the web. As you said, take a few days. If you go down to the Contest forum you will find several build threads of people starting up 10 gallon tanks. Read over those and get your ideas. You will always get feedback on Living Reefs!

C

 

[Aqua Boy]

Aquaboy, you were right to notice there is some frustration here because there is a delay and we probably aren't understanding your intentions when asking these questions. You won't find a nicer group of people on the web. As you said, take a few days. If you go down to the Contest forum you will find several build threads of people starting up 10 gallon tanks. Read over those and get your ideas. You will always get feedback on Living Reefs!

C

I appreciate that. I do not respond well to disrespectful activity. I help moderate sections on 2 car forums and would feel bad to act like someone is dumb and refrain from being open minded with them. Nobody is perfect and that type of response is not indicative to the spirit of the forums. I am not looking to battle with people. It is a waste of time. It may be easier just to get advice from people who can actually visit my tank to give real time assistance/guidance.

 

[Picasso]

One of the problems with this type of exchange is that you don't get to hear the tone of voice used in written posts. I've been on this board over a year and I've visited quite a few marine boards, I can state with certainty that LR has the nicest people. Again, if you're looking for a place to pat you on your back and give you lip service, that's not good feedback. There are a lot of ways to achieve a good tank so I can appreciate the differences in opinions you'll get but even I know you've broken some pretty basic rules (not suggestions, rules) and you could use some guidance. My advice to you, sir, is to read lots of build threads to get a feel for your style of tank. There are lots of styles of filtration systems, lots of theories on achieving a healthy bio load. Keep an eye on your fish and if they start showing early signs of stress, ich or both, then take appropriate actions.

In my opinion, your being a bit over-sensitive to one statement and overlooking the fact that you've gotten a plethora of awesome advice as to the best course of action for your tank and its inhabitants. It's a shame, really because this board has a lot to offer a newbie to saltwater.

Catherine

 

[wontonflip]

LOL Picasso posted while I was typing this...but we're pretty much saying the same thing :)

Aquaboy...I followed this thread today, but didn't say anything about the tang because I knew it would come up sooner or later. From an objective standpoint, the reason people here got emotional was how you worded your post about first seeing ich on the tang, and flushing it down the toilet, then commenting that it was a cheap fish anyway. After a few threads down, I saw that you had your own reasons, but before that, it did sound rather callous the way you just threw it out there.

While it is painful to have people jump on you, do try to shake it off, because this really is the best place to get advice. I can guarantee other forums would've ripped you a new one worse than this one, if you got a response at all. People here are passionate but fun. Typed words are easily misunderstood....it's difficult to convey your tone in written words.

As helpful as this forum is, everyone here is passionate about proper care of our waterfriends, and people being flippant about their care will cause people here to get hot tempered.

That said, you've been given great advice, from professionals to hobbyists who've gone through the exact same things you did and found good solutions. All we can do is advise you, and it's your choice to do what you wish in the end. Just don't be shocked if you get another ich attack in that tank to a susceptible fish. I hope you don't, though.

Shake it off!! :trampolin Keep on posting your progress.

 

[dcantucson]

I agree Wonton.
Stick with it Aqua Boy, stick with it! :)